Ackley Improved Education

[FEENIX]

Mark, as reference you can normally run a max or close to max load from the parent cartridge data, in an improved chamber, when fire forming.

I never do more than I have to when forming to warm the pockets up before real pressure on round 2 or possibly 3.
Sharp crisp angles at the top and bottom of the shoulder are the goal, but there is no sin in the process taking 2 firings to get there.

Blow out loads can blow your mind concerning precision, trust me.

In my .270 AI, I found an accuracy load for .270 Win and .270 AI.

 

[Shane Lindsey]

Does fire forming brass to AI mandate trimming after first firing? I have only purchased AI brass. Trimming is not my favorite pastime.

Mine were not too long, but I found quite a few that they were uneven to had to trim them to clean up.

338 Sherman.

 

[Nimrod]

Starline lists it, can't recall actually finding any for sale. Is it really .375 Win brass or just .30-30 brass with a different head stamp?
NOS Win brass goes for a small fortune on GB and the like.

It's been my experience that Starline makes pretty good brass but I have never actually sectioned a case to see if there is a difference.
I don't push pressures in anything I shoot, if I think I need more performance I simply go to a larger case, it's easier on the gun and the brass both.

I use a fair number of "improved" cases, and one thing I can never wrap my head around is people who use "I don't want to waste time fireforming" as an excuse.
I would agree if you use the COW method or some other non-actual-shooting method, but if you are doing that, why? Load up some ammo, and shoot it.

In my experience, you need to put 100-200 rounds down a barrel anyway to get it smoothed out to where it isn't going to speed up anymore. You also need get your scope zeroed, and to get familiar with the new platform. That is when I am fireforming. Then I have 100-200 pieces of fireformed brass that I can start serious load development with.

In regards to brass life, I am on load number 18 on my current batch of 7TCU brass for my Remington bolt gun, and load number 16 on my 7TCU brass for my Encore handgun. My 7-08AI with Lapua brass is on load number 6, the rest (6TCU, 6.5-06AI, 338 Sherman Mega, 30-30AI, 7BRM, and 280AI) are all in the 3-5 firings range.

I'm with you 100%! I shoot hundreds of shots at paper/steel for every one I shoot at game as I expect most of the folks on this forum do. I have never viewed fireforming as a chore but simply good practice. I like to shoot my guns and try to do so as much as possible whether fireforming or working up loads for a hunt.

 

[CCAguns]

Been shooting the 280AI since the mid-1980's and never once had a feeding problem.

 

[Leaf Litter]

I run a 35 Whelen AI for deer in Iowa. That gun has turned out to be an absolute beast. I get 4k ft-lb energy out of it and the recoil isn't too bad (when managed).

35 whelen factory ammo goes in, fully formed cases come out. No sweat. I do wish there was better 35 Whelen brass on the market, but I knew it would be that way when I built it.

Redding dies were definitely more costly than I wanted, but they are a great company to work with so I'm not complaining. I destroyed a decapping/expander ball stud and they replaced it for free, despite telling them it was 100% my own fault.

I can't compare the standard 35 Whelen to the AI version, I've never shot or reloaded for the standard, but the AI definitely has some huevos.

 

[quandary]

I run a 35 Whelen AI for deer in Iowa. That gun has turned out to be an absolute beast. I get 4k ft-lb energy out of it and the recoil isn't too bad (when managed).

35 whelen factory ammo goes in, fully formed cases come out. No sweat. I do wish there was better 35 Whelen brass on the market, but I knew it would be that way when I built it.

Redding dies were definitely more costly than I wanted, but they are a great company to work with so I'm not complaining. I destroyed a decapping/expander ball stud and they replaced it for free, despite telling them it was 100% my own fault.

I can't compare the standard 35 Whelen to the AI version, I've never shot or reloaded for the standard, but the AI definitely has some huevos.

I am in the process of building a 35 Whelen and thinking about standard versus AI. Is it possible to buy 35 Whelen brass and run it through the Redding 35 Whelen Improved sizing die to create the AI brass? Or is the better route to buy the brass load it and fire it to get the formed brass?

 

[cajun]

I am in the process of building a 35 Whelen and thinking about standard versus AI. Is it possible to buy 35 Whelen brass and run it through the Redding 35 Whelen Improved sizing die to create the AI brass? Or is the better route to buy the brass load it and fire it to get the formed brass?

No. You have to shoot the brass and push the shoulder out.

 

[memtb]

I am in the process of building a 35 Whelen and thinking about standard versus AI. Is it possible to buy 35 Whelen brass and run it through the Redding 35 Whelen Improved sizing die to create the AI brass? Or is the better route to buy the brass load it and fire it to get the formed brass?

I'm pretty sure the case must be fired in the larger AI chamber for the conversion! Buuuut, I've been wrong before! memtb

 

[Phil Rizzo]

I am in the process of building a 35 Whelen and thinking about standard versus AI. Is it possible to buy 35 Whelen brass and run it through the Redding 35 Whelen Improved sizing die to create the AI brass? Or is the better route to buy the brass load it and fire it to get the formed brass?

Fire forming is a great way to break in your new barrel, so it's not wasted effort.

 

[CCAguns]

Fire forming is a great way to break in your new barrel, so it's not wasted effort.

No, buy your factory ammo and fire form it to the AI dimensions. Good shooting practice! Actually, most standard cartridges shoot well from an AI chambering. I used to hunt with the 280 Rem factory cartridges - they shot MOA from my 280AI. My velocity improvement was less than expected due to my short 21" bbl. Doing somewhat better with the newer powders. Always consider barrel length. You can shorten them but not lengthen them!

 

[CCAguns]

Some gun manufacturers are now building rifles for 280AI - that tells us much about its popularity. Nosler is selling 280AI cartridges as well!

 

[Leaf Litter]

I am in the process of building a 35 Whelen and thinking about standard versus AI. Is it possible to buy 35 Whelen brass and run it through the Redding 35 Whelen Improved sizing die to create the AI brass? Or is the better route to buy the brass load it and fire it to get the formed brass?

You'll 100% need to fire form brass to get full AI capacity and profile. As mentioned by others, your first 100-200 rounds down the new barrel are your break-in period, so fire forming during this time is a great option. I load regular 35W brass and it shoots well enough during fire forming in my 35WAI to hunt with, so you're fine doing that as well.

Ultimately you're only going to see 25-50 fps gain in velocity going to AI, but the AI geometry will decrease the amount of neck trimming required after shooting. This may or may not ever matter, however, due to the lack of quality 35 Whelen brass on the market right now. Most of my Winchester and Hornady cases (trash brass) are getting loose primer pockets by the 3rd or 4th firing, which is when you'd expect to start needing to trim a standard 35W case anyway.

If you were to neck a quality 30-06 brass like Lapua or Peterson up to 35W, you might see the AI chamberings save you time/effort trimming l, but I've yet to try it so I can't say for 100% sure.

 

[memtb]

Fire forming is a great way to break in your new barrel, so it's not wasted effort.

Yes it is!

No, buy your factory ammo and fire form it to the AI dimensions. Good shooting practice! Actually, most standard cartridges shoot well from an AI chambering. I used to hunt with the 280 Rem factory cartridges - they shot MOA from my 280AI. My velocity improvement was less than expected due to my short 21" bbl. Doing somewhat better with the newer powders. Always consider barrel length. You can shorten them but not lengthen them!

When I form cases for my .373 AI, I use BMG powder……I have a lot of it!

It's waaaay too slow for the available case capacity, so I fill the case to the neck/shoulder and seat a 270 grain Hornady. Groups @ 100 yards are a large ragged hole! Velocities are running around 1800 mv., with very low velocity deviation!

I keep thinking that it would be good for cast bullet loading/shooting….but, I'm concerned about the amount of "unburned" powder in the bore. I'm concerned about bore erosion caused by the unburned powder!

Oh and, my first 60 rounds through my AI was with my .375 H&H hand-loads for my "just retired" H&H in one sitting at the bench. Those were some pretty darn good groups also. memtb