ABLR's can be hit or miss with me. In my 6.8W they shot good one day, mediocre the next. My 280AI hated them. The 7RM shot them fairly well. But my 7SAUM loves 175s. Puts them in a 1/2 MOA about every time. I have always had good accuracy with the monometals too. Hammers in my 7SS again around or under 1/2 MOA. The 172s going just under 3000 fps with 26" barrel. Just built another 7SS with a shorter 22" barrel, let's see what she likes.
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ABLR’s won’t shoot
- Thread starter IDHNTER
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The first box of 142gr 6.5's I bought shot great. I was not able to duplicate the results after trying a couple of subsequent lots, each with different/poor results……Gave up on them.
Elkeater
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- Dec 3, 2017
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To answer your original question. I struggled with the ABLRs in my .300 win mag. They were very erratic. Would shoot like a .3" group one day and a 2.3" group the next day.
As to the on game performance of hammers I'm happy. Have probably taken between 30-40 animals with hammers including the 63gr absolute in a .223, 64gr hunter in the .223, 140gr absolute in my 7-08ai, 150gr in the .300blk, and the 181 and 199 hunters in my .300 win mag. Animals from hogs, feral goats, axis deer, oryx, elk, coues deer, black bear, pronghorn, aoudad, Mouflan sheep. Everything died quickly.
Try shooting them touching or very close. I could never get them to shoot because I listened to the "they like a lot of jump" claims. I was fireforming some 338 NMI loads and had them jammed into the lands and shot a 1/4" 3 shot group. Tried the same in my 260AI and have shot them successfully to 1560 yards.
MagnumManiac
Well-Known Member
ABLR are finicky, which is why most give up on them early.
I have great groups with 210g ABLR out of 2 of my 300WM rifles, the other 3 don't use them.
I get fantastic groups out of my custom 264WM with both the 142g and 150g ABLR, it was really easy finding great groups actually.
As others have said, long jump works, but I found my loads at touching, .005" or .010" off consistently. I load all my bullets with the heal below the neck/shoulder juncture with .010" of heal above that line. If you seat below this, it could be a reason for the inaccuracy.
My 7STW runs the 168g ABLR, it's best groups happen at touching, but there is a slight difference at .010" which is still good.
I found different lots need sorting, ogive length varies by .005" or so, even in the same box on occasion.
I like them and use them often.
Cheers.
I have great groups with 210g ABLR out of 2 of my 300WM rifles, the other 3 don't use them.
I get fantastic groups out of my custom 264WM with both the 142g and 150g ABLR, it was really easy finding great groups actually.
As others have said, long jump works, but I found my loads at touching, .005" or .010" off consistently. I load all my bullets with the heal below the neck/shoulder juncture with .010" of heal above that line. If you seat below this, it could be a reason for the inaccuracy.
My 7STW runs the 168g ABLR, it's best groups happen at touching, but there is a slight difference at .010" which is still good.
I found different lots need sorting, ogive length varies by .005" or so, even in the same box on occasion.
I like them and use them often.
Cheers.
William W.
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- Joined
- Dec 30, 2014
- Messages
- 113
I use Vihtavuori powder with a variety of Nosler tipped bullets in a variety of calibers, seated to maximum magazine length, and have no complaints.
I load 165 gr Nosler Accubond LR for my Winchester XPR Varmint 24" (heavy barrel) with a target type brake. The ABLR is not easy to load because it shoots best when not using conventional wisdom and regular loading procedures. I use both IMR4350 and H4350. I don't load beyond 51gr with either, still get around 2700 fps. I have noted that it takes a freebore of .030 to .040 to get the best accuracy. My rifle shoots groups between 0.45 to 0.70 moa, quite regularly, depending on the day and conditions. I also load 160gr Nosler Partitions with IMR4350. This load will shoot 0.6 to 0.8 moa,, again depending on conditions.
You might want to peek at this article regarding the Western reloading.
6.8 Western Load Data - Shooting Times
The 6.8 Western is a snap to handload, and the potential bullet-powder combinations are almost endless; here's some valuable load data and best practices to yield the best groups.
www.shootingtimes.com
Huntaddict
Well-Known Member
Concur here, been shooting them for about 11 years in my 30 Nosler. They can be finicky for sure.
I run the 210 ablr with Retumbo and .028 jump. Great results in accuracy and terminal performance.
Sealesniper
Well-Known Member
I shoot them in my 6.5x284 and 7wsm with great results and accuracy.
med358-boise
Well-Known Member
Kind of a long post, but I have wanted to have this discussion with folks for a while and this seemed like a good thread for it. I know lots of folks like the audette ladder but I feel it is inherently flawed. You are relying on a data point of 1 for an analysis unless you are going to shoot multiple ladders (say 2 or 3) in which case there is no real advantage over the Optimal Charge Weight (OCW) method. Consider you need to shoot at 200 yards at a minimum to see the effect and we all shoot better at 100 yards than 200 or 300 yards and I have yet to have a rifle shoot a load great at 100 and bad at 400. Also, I have yet to see a rifle be 1.25 MOA at 100 and 1/2 MOA at 400.
A .66 MOA load is not a bad load in a hunting rifle but a 7/8 group for a long range rifle is not great. Now consider the following for a 200 yard ladder: What if shot 1 (in the ladder) is at the bottom left of its own theoretical .66 moa three shot group, shot 2 is at the top right its own theoretical .66 moa 3 shot group, and shot 3 is top left of its own theoretical .66 moa group, shot 4 is perfect elevation but left of its own theoretical 3 shot .66 MOA group, shot 5 is perfect elevation and left of its own theoretical 3 shot .875 MOA group, and shot 6 is slightly low and left of its own theoretical 3 shot .875 MOA group. Load 1,2,&3 have "bad audette results" and Loads 3,4, & 5have "good audette results. When 3, 4, & 5 are actually worse. In short, you have no idea where any one particular POI of a load is relative to that loads own group if you had shot a three shot group.
Much better to shot actual 3 shot groups of loads with ever increasing charging weights (I use either .4 or .6 grains) depending on whether I am starting above versus below 60 grains. Here is a classic OCW target. Imagine trying to determine 43.6 is great but unstable with a data point of 1 or 2 shots from 43.6 and 44.0. Likewise, determining that 46.2 is better node than 45.4 or 45.8 using an audette ladder. Yes, the barrel has some heating treating issues but not bad for 1932 military barrel.
So the net is, run some OCW tests @ 100 yards with your ABLRs before you give up. I only used them in one rifle and they shot fine - .7 MOA as I recall, 190 ABLRs in a 300 WSM Browning X-bolt.
A .66 MOA load is not a bad load in a hunting rifle but a 7/8 group for a long range rifle is not great. Now consider the following for a 200 yard ladder: What if shot 1 (in the ladder) is at the bottom left of its own theoretical .66 moa three shot group, shot 2 is at the top right its own theoretical .66 moa 3 shot group, and shot 3 is top left of its own theoretical .66 moa group, shot 4 is perfect elevation but left of its own theoretical 3 shot .66 MOA group, shot 5 is perfect elevation and left of its own theoretical 3 shot .875 MOA group, and shot 6 is slightly low and left of its own theoretical 3 shot .875 MOA group. Load 1,2,&3 have "bad audette results" and Loads 3,4, & 5have "good audette results. When 3, 4, & 5 are actually worse. In short, you have no idea where any one particular POI of a load is relative to that loads own group if you had shot a three shot group.
Much better to shot actual 3 shot groups of loads with ever increasing charging weights (I use either .4 or .6 grains) depending on whether I am starting above versus below 60 grains. Here is a classic OCW target. Imagine trying to determine 43.6 is great but unstable with a data point of 1 or 2 shots from 43.6 and 44.0. Likewise, determining that 46.2 is better node than 45.4 or 45.8 using an audette ladder. Yes, the barrel has some heating treating issues but not bad for 1932 military barrel.
So the net is, run some OCW tests @ 100 yards with your ABLRs before you give up. I only used them in one rifle and they shot fine - .7 MOA as I recall, 190 ABLRs in a 300 WSM Browning X-bolt.
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Huntaddict
Well-Known Member
What Nosler has shared with me some years agoI load 165 gr Nosler Accubond LR for my Winchester XPR Varmint 24" (heavy barrel) with a target type brake. The ABLR is not easy to load because it shoots best when not using conventional wisdom and regular loading procedures. I use both IMR4350 and H4350. I don't load beyond 51gr with either, still get around 2700 fps. I have noted that it takes a freebore of .030 to .040 to get the best accuracy. My rifle shoots groups between 0.45 to 0.70 moa, quite regularly, depending on the day and conditions. I also load 160gr Nosler Partitions with IMR4350. This load will shoot 0.6 to 0.8 moa,, again depending on conditions.
You might want to peek at this article regarding the Western reloading.
6.8 Western Load Data - Shooting Times
The 6.8 Western is a snap to handload, and the potential bullet-powder combinations are almost endless; here's some valuable load data and best practices to yield the best groups.
"The ablr was designed to achieve a ballistic advantage in accuracy and performance for every shooter. Both the OTC consumer purchasing box ammunition and to for the hand loader."
With this, the notion of longer jump makes sense. They load to SAAMI in box ammo and never know what chamber the bullet will be shot in. Result, more jump - this is consistent with ELDX and one of the reasons Berger developed the hybrid bullet - generally they are all designed to have a bit more jump to faciliate box ammo accuracy which is what they use for marketing purposes.
When you get it right - like anything it runs great.
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If your 170 EOL shoot great, that's the load you should stay with. As for lack of blood trail, if you shoot straight up the leg middle of the body, you won't need a blood trail.
Calvin45
Well-Known Member
This was my experience in .300 win mag as well, with the 210 grain ablr. They'd show all kinds of promise and then it'd all go to
.VTbluegrass
Well-Known Member
I must be the outlier, I got the 150gr ABLR to shoot right off and just tweaked it a little by adjusting seating depth. Then again my old 270 is like a fat guy at the buffet and eats everything.
I am only shooting small southern whitetails and I will agree with a previous post that my terminal results were similar to Berger's. I get pass through with both on these deer but both they appear to come apart in similar fashion. Due to the cost difference I will likely go back to the 150VLD when I am out of ABLRs
I am only shooting small southern whitetails and I will agree with a previous post that my terminal results were similar to Berger's. I get pass through with both on these deer but both they appear to come apart in similar fashion. Due to the cost difference I will likely go back to the 150VLD when I am out of ABLRs
