A Serious Question

[MagnumManiac]

@lancetkenyon
I could choose my 25-06, it's a fully worked over Ruger M77 MKII, blued/wood stock, fully bedded, pillars with 2lb Timney trigger, but at 10lbs unloaded it is a burden to carry and optics are as old as the rifle.
Still capable, just not modern enough. Shoots 1/4-3/8MoA all the time, and is perfect from a solid stable rest. Still quite capable from sitting, no recoil, swings well and with it's 4-12x40 scope it's doable to 500, 600 may be a bit of a stretch…

Cheers.

 

[quandary]

I would like to add that mean radius is a significantly more meaningful measure when thinking about shooting at game. For example I just finished load development for the Barnes 160LRX in my 7PRC at the 100 yard distance. Long range comes next. In any event my 8 shot verification group was .61 MOA (I do not think over a bigger group it would be better than 1). But more importantly the the MR was .23. To me that is a significantly more meaningful number. Using the 600 yard example above that would put me in a mean radius, read cone of fire, of a 1.2" radius circle around my point of aim. That is a dead animal.

 

[Teri Anne]

Well, to each their own, however, I was referencing both Grizzly and Alaskan Brown Bears. Griz and Brownies have been and continue to be killed by 9mm, 357, 44 Mag, 10 MM and the big bore pistols on what appears to be a regular basis under less than optimum conditions like "Being rushed by a mad MaMa or ****ed off boar." While hunting the hunter relies on well-placed shots, at reasonable ranges, with bullets entering the chest cavity and disrupting the heart and lungs just like any other big game animal.

I am not sure whether it was Field and Stream or Outdoor Life. Several years ago there was an account of a hunter being guided on a bear hunt on Kodiak Island. During the planning stage the guide asked the client what rifle he would be using. The client replied, 243. Cutting to the chase, the client did in fact take a nice Brown Bear with his 243 with one well placed shot. If I remember correctly, about 100 yards. Now I am sure that the guide had him backed up with at least a 338 mag or larger rifle, but the fact remains that life is fragile. Interrupt the normal functioning, especially of the heart and lungs and it dies a rapid death.

Now putting all of this in perspective, I have a 6.8 Western and with 170 gr bullets, i believe it would be a reasonable rifle to hunt big bears with. Conversely, I also have a 338 Win Mag. If you were to ask me, which one I would take on a big bear hunt what do you think my answer would be?

I know a few of you didn't believe my comment about the Alaska Guide letting a hunter use a 243 to hunt a Brown Bear. I came across this passage from a Ron Spoomer Outdoors interview with an Alaska Bear Guide. The guide asked the same questions as the guide who allowed the 243 on a hunt. Here is the e from the interview with the guide about what rifle to use.



Not a 243, but I believe it is the same guide.

 

[Korhil78]

With magnum rifles, A lot of people say go out and shoot a 10-15 shot group and it will make a believer out of you. They are correct. I don't really care how I get to that ten shot group whether it be 3 shots on 4 different days or what but a lot of .25-.5 MOA claimers will be unclaimed if they record where every shot goes up to 10-15 shots. You can shoot one shot everyday over 10-15 days for all I care.

If I can keep 10-15 shots inside an inch. I'm very happy.

 

[Teri Anne]

With magnum rifles, A lot of people say go out and shoot a 10-15 shot group and it will make a believer out of you. They are correct. I don't really care how I get to that ten shot group whether it be 3 shots on 4 different days or what but a lot of .25-.5 MOA claimers will be unclaimed if they record where every shot goes up to 10-15 shots. You can shoot one shot everyday over 10-15 days for all I care.

If I can keep 10-15 shots inside an inch. I'm very happy.

It's difficult to keep 10 or 15 rounds in a one inch group if you are trying to do it all at the same time, especially with a magnum of any kind. After shooting three, 3 shot groups, the recoil will start to get to you, then your vision will start to blur a bit from staring through the scope. One shot a day might be difficult too. Conditions will vary, causing that one shot to hit somewhere else on the target due to varying winds, lighting and your position. Interesting challenge.

 

[Korhil78]

It's difficult to keep 10 or 15 rounds in a one inch group if you are trying to do it all at the same time, especially with a magnum of any kind. After shooting three, 3 shot groups, the recoil will start to get to you, then your vision will start to blur a bit from staring through the scope. One shot a day might be difficult too. Conditions will vary, causing that one shot to hit somewhere else on the target due to varying winds, lighting and your position. Interesting challenge.

That's why I'm tickled when I do get a 10 shot group within an inch haha. But we were talking about 100 yards. Conditions don't have to be perfect for that.

 

[yukonal]

If it's a true moa rifle, 1" consistent groups at 100 yards will give you 6" groups at 600. Add a couple inches for variations in the wind...one way or the other...and you should still be able to kill anything between 100 and 600.

I just got back from a hunt, where my shot was 305 yards. BUT, a 20+ mph wind. I had 14" of drift...with a 200 yard zero. Think about THAT the next time you consider a 600 yard shot. And yes...both shots hit him in the chest.

 

[Korhil78]

If it's a true moa rifle, 1" consistent groups at 100 yards will give you 6" groups at 600. Add a couple inches for variations in the wind...one way or the other...and you should still be able to kill anything between 100 and 600.

I just got back from a hunt, where my shot was 305 yards. BUT, a 20+ mph wind. I had 14" of drift...with a 200 yard zero. Think about THAT the next time you consider a 600 yard shot. And yes...both shots hit him in the chest.

Yea at 600 yards with a 20 mph wind would be a no go for me. 8mph and under, I can handle.

 

[memtb]

It's difficult to keep 10 or 15 rounds in a one inch group if you are trying to do it all at the same time, especially with a magnum of any kind. After shooting three, 3 shot groups, the recoil will start to get to you, then your vision will start to blur a bit from staring through the scope. One shot a day might be difficult too. Conditions will vary, causing that one shot to hit somewhere else on the target due to varying winds, lighting and your position. Interesting challenge.

I guess that I should be pretty happy with one of my 3 shot groups from the other day…..but, not all shots would've stayed inside of an inch @ 100.



I was playing around with my Leupold CDS scope, testing it for it's tracking! I had 14 rounds to burn, all shots were at 300 yards. All groups were fired, as quickly as I could reload and settle in for the shot. Though, there was about a 30 minute break early on in the shooting.


Naturally my best group was just off of the paper, high…..after turning the dial for 500 yards. These were shots, 10-12 group #4. I dialed back down to 300 for the last two. The bullets went through the black rubber stall mat that I use for my target backing. As it's pretty much "self-healing"…. I painted the holes with "white out" so they could be better seen! I wish that all of my 300 yard groups were that good.

But considering - this was group #4, the barrel was hot, and I'm a "sissy"… I was pretty pleased.

I do cheat however, using a PAST Recoil Shield for my bench shooting. Oh and……this was from my 9 pound (magnum) hunting rifle! memtb

 

[memtb]

There have been some awesome responses to my OP and I thank everyone for their input!

However, I kinda/sorta/ maybe shoulda added to my list……no mufflers or muzzle brakes! Obviously the intent, though I failed to express, is ……this was focused upon hunting rifles, maybe not those rifles that are fired/shot hundreds if not thousands of rounds per year!


"My OH My"……how might that have changed the responses !/? memtb

 

[L2land]

Tag I'm in. This will probably go 10 pages.
memtb Serious.

Almost there….

 

[memtb]

Almost there….

It was slowing down…..I thought that it need a little stimulus! memtb

 

[birddog 68]

I do cheat however, using a PAST Recoil Shield for my bench shooting. Oh and……this was from my 9 pound (magnum) hunting rifle!

You should probably think about getting a 6.5 creedmoor.

 

[K.E.C. Darkside]

My 6.5 creedmore weights in at just over 9lbs. With a muzzle brake.