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A real target for beginning LR shooters

My steel targets are 6" for this reason. When I can consistently place my first and last shot on target I know I'm good out to that range. Past that... is fun and something to work on. I made 7 out of 10 hits last weekend at 430 yards. An easy shot for some. Fun for me and I'm getting better. My hunting spot only has shots to a little over 200.
 
I don't have a kestrel but I got an anemometer for work. It's no ballistic computer but since work bought it for me I've been playing with it. Same effect as when I got my first rangefinder, I learned that I needed calibrated.

Everyone wanting to get into long range shooting or hunting should at least get one of the $25 wind meters that plug into their phone and a budget rangefinder. I wish I had that gear long ago, I wouldn't have had hardly any effect on my ammo budget with the $100 in gear but would've missed less.
 
Practice is critical and I dont get enough.

A Kestrel will calculate a firing solution that takes wind in to account but it only measures wind at the Kestrel. That is probably in the boundary layer near the ground while your bullet will be traveling significantly higher and the geography might create wind conditions that vary between the shooting position and the target.

If I practiced more, I could make better wind calls, with or without a Kestrel. I could dial my scope a lot better too.

Any way, a tool can help you get there but you have to know when to stop relying on it too.
 
New shooter here too. Would you say it's necessary to have the Kestrel weather meter? Could it be done without? Maybe an experienced shooter could chime in.

Thank you.
I'd say yes it's necessary but not for the wind meter, that definitely helps a person calibrate themselves to the wind, but after awhile you won't use it that much. What you really need it for is to measure your air density, that's always fluctuating as temp changes and altitude changes
 
I just wanted to say how much I appreciate this post. I am that new guy with a brand new Tikka T3 lite in 300 WSM.

My next purchase is a kestrel 5700 elite
Loading dies, brass, powder and primers.

Until I get things dialed in, I'll keep lurking and learning
 
I've seen the Kestrel Sportsman for $250 from Cameraland. Says it can be upgraded to the 5700. I'm already deep in money on this new fun cash sink, but if it's a night/day difference then I understand the need for it.


I just got mine from them this week. It's been to rainy and muddy to try to practice with it. However I borrowed one last year when I went to CO for rifle elk hunt. (I live in Indiana elevation 8-900', I hunted above 10k') I was concerned about the effect of altitude on longer shots but the kestrel set me up for a first round hit on a rock the size of a basketball at a hair over 800 yards. That was the only shot I took out there. Well worth the $250 in my opinion!!
 
I just wanted to say how much I appreciate this post. I am that new guy with a brand new Tikka T3 lite in 300 WSM.

My next purchase is a kestrel 5700 elite
Loading dies, brass, powder and primers.

Until I get things dialed in, I'll keep lurking and learning

yes reloading is definitely a huge part of it and haven't talked about it but here is a link to read from Alex Wheeler. He has a wealth of knowledge on here. Follow the link below.

 
I liked seeing this post migrate into a discussion of wind. Definitely the most important aspect in long range shooting.

For the beginner, I think the most important step is getting a gun/ammo that shoots sub moa with a reasonably high bc and velocity. Say .600/3000 or close to it.

Then figure out how to shoot inside that 1moa with your different rests and shooting positions. Lean your gear. This is precision.

Next step is to validate your ballistics. A Chrono is nice but not required. When you have a validated profile you should now be able to calculate a correct solution for any set of conditions. This is accuracy. There are tons of videos and learning to help get you here.

That last hurdle is feeding the calculator with good inputs. Mostly straight forward, but wind will own you no matter your experience level. Shoot as much as you can in the wind, it helps!

A post is hard to teach in, but start by applying our bracket method. Learn to estimate wind in 5mph brackets. 0, 5, 10, 15. Use wind meter, vegetation, mirage. In your calculator set up your 5 mph input. In the field use that solution or double it to get your 10 mph solution. With the suggested bc/MV combo I suggested, this will get you elk capable to 1000 yards!

Shoot for ALL shots inside a 1 moa tall by 2 moa wide boundary. Push the limits, and you'll learn how far you will feel comfortable hunting. Never shoot based on dope! Always go through the complete solution method.
 
View attachment 191385

First off, I am not a self-proclaimed great shooter but what I am is a realist. This is also not for the experienced LR shooter as you will already know all of this. There are a lot of people, I imagine, who are lurking on this website that never post, who are just getting started into LR shooting and don't understand what it really takes to get it done on an animal at Longrange. They log on here and see posts where people have posted targets at 800-1000 yards and there groups are 4-5" which is all good but their group is about 8" off point of aim on their target. I know because I was guilty of it when I first joined this site. Look at my 4" group at 950 yards that would have gut shot a deer because it's so far off my point of aim is what it's really saying.

So with shooters on here who are just getting into longer range shooting, I set up my target at 800 yards...it is a 24"x24" target. I had a slight carbon ring in this rifle so I cleaned the crap out of it the night before. Even scrubbed the throat with JB. I got my kestrel 5700 elite w/applied ballistics out and bluetoothed it to my rangefinder and ranged the target and it sent the distance to my kestrel and it gave me the elevation and windage from the information that I stored in it for my rifle and load. The wind was blowing from 9 o'clock at 4mph which called for 1.5 MOA left. Elevation at 800 yards for this rifle is 15.5 MOA. I dialed and shot and the cold clean barrel shot is the one to the right of the 10" orange circle. That could have been me or it could have been the clean cold bore shot everyone dreads but the shot wasn't that far off.

I then shot 10 shots letting the barrel cool after each shot. I also re-verified the wind on every shot with my kestrel. On the 6th shot, I noticed that the wind had changed from 4mph from 9 o'clock to 4mph from 11 o'clock. So to show how far off even a small change in wind direction can change your shot placement, I left my windage turret set for 4mph from 9 o'clock and shot. That is the shot to the left of the orange circle. Windage correction for 4mph from the 9 o'clock calls for 1.5 MOA left to compensate. Corrections for a 4mph wind from 11 o'clock calls for 1 MOA left. Just that small of a change in direction results in being 4" off of your point of aim plus what ever the shooter error incurs.

As you can see from that shot left, if a deer was facing right, it would be gut shot andI you may be chasing that deer a ways.

Most people on here already know all of this but a lot of beginning shooters may get bold by their groups being small but not on their point of aim like others have posted pics of and think they can be successful at longrange shots on animals. This will lead to utter failure. I shoot a lot for practice at these ranges and am meticulous at reloading and as you can see, my 9 shot group with each wind correction is not SUPER tight but it is within the kill zone and that's what counts. My load is accurate and consistent but sometimes I am not. Just keep in mind that groups are important but hitting at your point of aim repeatedly is equally or more important and it takes a lot of work. I hope this doesn't come off wrong, I'm not a great shot and not trying to brag as you can see I pulled one shot high and the group is not outstanding. I just think to many people get carried away about their small groups without worrying so much about where the shots are.
Korhil78, Thank you for your post about "Point of Aim". Honestly, I am one of those "who are lurking on this website that never post, who are just getting started into LR shooting and don't understand what it really takes to get it done on an animal at Long range." Truly, I will probably never take an 800 yard shot. But I agree whole heartedly with what you have stated here. If I ever take an animal at 500 yards I will be Proud. But even when I work on groups at 100 yards my friends are excited to see my groups at or under 1". I am not. Because usually, not always, that group is not the Point of Aim. Before I start working on Groups out past 200 yards I will work much harder on Point Of Aim. Thank you again,
Perry Bell
 
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View attachment 191385

First off, I am not a self-proclaimed great shooter but what I am is a realist. This is also not for the experienced LR shooter as you will already know all of this. There are a lot of people, I imagine, who are lurking on this website that never post, who are just getting started into LR shooting and don't understand what it really takes to get it done on an animal at Longrange. They log on here and see posts where people have posted targets at 800-1000 yards and there groups are 4-5" which is all good but their group is about 8" off point of aim on their target. I know because I was guilty of it when I first joined this site. Look at my 4" group at 950 yards that would have gut shot a deer because it's so far off my point of aim is what it's really saying.

So with shooters on here who are just getting into longer range shooting, I set up my target at 800 yards...it is a 24"x24" target. I had a slight carbon ring in this rifle so I cleaned the crap out of it the night before. Even scrubbed the throat with JB. I got my kestrel 5700 elite w/applied ballistics out and bluetoothed it to my rangefinder and ranged the target and it sent the distance to my kestrel and it gave me the elevation and windage from the information that I stored in it for my rifle and load. The wind was blowing from 9 o'clock at 4mph which called for 1.5 MOA left. Elevation at 800 yards for this rifle is 15.5 MOA. I dialed and shot and the cold clean barrel shot is the one to the right of the 10" orange circle. That could have been me or it could have been the clean cold bore shot everyone dreads but the shot wasn't that far off.

I then shot 10 shots letting the barrel cool after each shot. I also re-verified the wind on every shot with my kestrel. On the 6th shot, I noticed that the wind had changed from 4mph from 9 o'clock to 4mph from 11 o'clock. So to show how far off even a small change in wind direction can change your shot placement, I left my windage turret set for 4mph from 9 o'clock and shot. That is the shot to the left of the orange circle. Windage correction for 4mph from the 9 o'clock calls for 1.5 MOA left to compensate. Corrections for a 4mph wind from 11 o'clock calls for 1 MOA left. Just that small of a change in direction results in being 4" off of your point of aim plus what ever the shooter error incurs.

As you can see from that shot left, if a deer was facing right, it would be gut shot andI you may be chasing that deer a ways.

Most people on here already know all of this but a lot of beginning shooters may get bold by their groups being small but not on their point of aim like others have posted pics of and think they can be successful at longrange shots on animals. This will lead to utter failure. I shoot a lot for practice at these ranges and am meticulous at reloading and as you can see, my 9 shot group with each wind correction is not SUPER tight but it is within the kill zone and that's what counts. My load is accurate and consistent but sometimes I am not. Just keep in mind that groups are important but hitting at your point of aim repeatedly is equally or more important and it takes a lot of work. I hope this doesn't come off wrong, I'm not a great shot and not trying to brag as you can see I pulled one shot high and the group is not outstanding. I just think to many people get carried away about their small groups without worrying so much about where the shots are.
First thing great group, keep after it, you are on the right track. I shoot matches from 300 yards out to 1,000 yards and learning how to read the wind is the hardest to learn. I have had 4 shots go into the ten ring and then throw one out in the 5 ring, it happens.
I to hunt in New Mexico for Elk and Deer and my longest shot to date is a little over 200 yards, my last deer was around 75 yards so I don't see a need to take very long shots. I prefer to hunt with 6.5 mm and I can hit a 6" target cold bore most ever time out to 300 yards. My point get in position for a good shot and let the game come to you, I have had game animal within 25 yards and they never new I was there.
Ace
 
Livetohunt7,
Do you need a Kestrel? To me this is one of those quit trying to learn the tricks of the trade and learn the trade itself moments. Are they handy gadgets? Sure they are, we teach and use them. I have the 5700 elite and it does a lot more than just give you environmentals and a simple firing solution. Do I snatch them away from guys and force them to use recorded hard data sometimes, dang skippy I do. I think you need to learn to use the equipment you have, your rifle and scope. See for yourself. Plug in the environmental conditions into a ballistic computer (app, free online JBM, whatever) and set the range to 600, then make some major changes to the big ones like temp and pressure (station) or density altitude. Takes quite a bit to change your dope to a concerning level. My advice would be a decent range finder (if you don't have one already), that error can get you in trouble quick even at moderate ranges. If you want a wind gauge to practice wind calls at your location, they can be had fairly cheap. If you want something to read current environmentals, they can be had for a little more but reasonably cheap. Do you need a guicci piece of gear that cost as much as a new rifle to be a successful new shooter, nope! If you are saying that you want to start out shooting at 1000 then I'll say don't put the cart before the horse. If you have all the money in the world and don't mind being spendy then so be it, it's your money. But you did mention money, so I'm thinking that's not the case. Good luck!
 
Ballistics calculator and good rangefinder is what I started out with. I got a good load for my 25-06 (all I had when I started) and just hung a 10" steel plate and started at 300 and shot a shot and then moved back 100 yards each time. After a while, I was getting really dang good at 800 yards with that rifle.
 
Before you get really serious get your rifle/optic system and loading procedures down so you can do a 10 shot 1moa group at 300y. Not just once, but basically on demand. 1moa doesnt sound that hard but 10 shots adds a dimension most guys never do, three shots sure, but 10 shots in a row on demand. Not so easy. That means your system is on point and you can move on knowing that your shooting is solid and downrange results are valid.

Then learn the wind, skipdavidson outlined that well. Learn how the terrain affects the wind as well, a hump in the ground can add some vertical and change the horizontal. Wind calling is an art that a person can spend years getting good at.
 
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Well written I've taken shots out to 600 yards on big game under calm conditions and never had a problem, with practice it's a chip shot. Please note under calm conditions I said, little breeze if any and an unaware animal. I once had an opportunity at a whitetail doe broadside at 429 yards nice calm day snowflakes falling straight down, dialed in the dope and squeezed the trigger on my 22-250 which I know like the inside of my eyelid. Doe stood there for a few seconds while I assumed I missed. I reloaded and double checked that I adjusted elevation the right direction (hey my 4 year old was watching). Got ready to shoot laser again and she was gone. Told my disappointed boy well I missed (dads never miss) but let's go find her tracks and make sure. We got to the multflora rose bush she was feeding on there she lay with a 50 grain bullet thru her heart! Perfect conditions tho. The next year same exact spot 257 wby I built by myself wind right to left at a nasty clip. Head up my butt because well I had horsepower in the chamber. Squeezed the trigger doe vanished into the swamp with her front right leg flopping around.looked for her 3 hours in wet golden rod and alder swamp. Lost her almost. Next morning I was 1/4 mile or so past where I lost her on the other end of the swamp. Noticed deer sneaking thru brush about 200 yards away. Go figure 1 had a good limp. When she presented a decent shot the 90 grain Sierra hollopoint did its job! Turned out to be the doe I hit the day before bullet drifted along with any other factors that didn't help from the poa behind her shoulder. Impacted her brisket breaking her opposite leg. Thank god I was blessed with the opportunity to finish my mistake! A Friend at the local gun shop was talking to me about shooting deer at long range later in the season. Now to me I don't consider 600 yards long range but where I hunt a 400 yard shot is a long one. I told him proudly that I'd never shoot at an animal in high winds past 200 yards again! I owe them more respect than the risk of a wounding shot! I guess moral of the story is I hate wind!!!!! Pic below is a 50 grain Speer tnt I recovered from doe with 22-250.

This is a great thread and I do not want to send it off the rails,,,,, but it's for people new to this game so I feel obligated. I agree with everything above except for the 22-250 and the 50 gr. Varmint bullet. I'm not a fan of 22 cal.s for deer to start, but I really do not want any newby to think a bullet designed to explode in varmints should be used in deer.
 
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