8.6 Creedmoor

[Mattpong]

What bullet? If it's anything other than a projectile designed to expand/frag at subsonic velocity then I wouldn't expect anything other than little to no expansion and crappy results. Crappy as in an animal that will die eventually, and little to no blood trail.

I'm embarrassed to say, Sellier & bellot 200 gr fmj and Remington 220 SMK hp. These are the most practical to get on the market. I've been scratching my head looking at expanding-bullet options. But, these are more trouble to get and try. Plus, penetration is a big issue with hogs. My best hope currently is the Atomic 260 gr soft point that just came out. I want a hard thumper, not these whimpy-looking 190gr expanding bullets I'd been seeing on the market before the Atomic 260gr. But, I'd be happy hitting these hogs with a bullet even bigger than 260gr.

 

[TXAoudadKlr]

I was gravitating toward the 458 socom when I discovered the 8.6. The problem with 458 socom is it's a struggle getting it subsonic. I would probably need to get into reloading. Plus, there are slim pickings on the market for 458 bullets big enough to be practical for making subsonic-- without just lowering the powder change and waisting case capacity to make an average-size bullet subsonic. Doable. But, a heck of a lot of trouble. Plus, I would need a whole new gun, suppressor and to build a reloading setup from scratch. Right now, I use a 308 Desert Tech MDR. It's already has my night-vision laser mounted. I emailed Desert Tech asking if they can make a 8.6 barrel conversion. They seem interested and passed on my request to their R&D department. Plus, I think my 30-cal suppressor may have enough clearance for a 338. I may cautiously consider using the same suppressor.

Black butterfly ammo has a 500gr "buzzsaw" Maker bullet, 500gr expanding soft point and a 600gr softpoint all design to work at subsonic velocities. I used a super sonic 400gr Maker on a whitetail with good results.

 

[Mattpong]

Black butterfly ammo has a 500gr "buzzsaw" Maker bullet, 500gr expanding soft point and a 600gr softpoint all design to work at subsonic velocities. I used a super sonic 400gr Maker on a whitetail with good results.

Sir, you are a gentleman and a scholar. I did not know these are out there. It is time to start the paperwork on a 458 suppressor. Thank you.

 

[J E Custom]

I cant find any ballistics on the 8.6 Creedmoor subsonic loads. Looks like the only way to get anything over 4 or 500 ft/lbs of energy at the muzzle is to go supersonic.

Some where in the range of 1000 to 1050 ft/sec is the limit for subsonic ammo and this is just not enough energy for big hogs. A 223 Rem produces over 1200 ft/lbs of energy and it is no where enough to drop them where they stand.

The 6.8 s produces just over 2000 ft lbs and the 6.5 Creedmoor ups the energy to 2300 ft/lbs at the muzzle and in my experience these would be considered Minimum hog loads, but that is not subsonic. so if you are going to build a 8.6 Creedmoor and shoot super sonic loads, what is the point.

Just a question

J E CUSTOM

 

[Mattpong]

I cant find any ballistics on the 8.6 Creedmoor subsonic loads. Looks like the only way to get anything over 4 or 500 ft/lbs of energy at the muzzle is to go supersonic.

Some where in the range of 1000 to 1050 ft/sec is the limit for subsonic ammo and this is just not enough energy for big hogs. A 223 Rem produces over 1200 ft/lbs of energy and it is no where enough to drop them where they stand.

The 6.8 s produces just over 2000 ft lbs and the 6.5 Creedmoor ups the energy to 2300 ft/lbs at the muzzle and in my experience these would be considered Minimum hog loads, but that is not subsonic. so if you are going to build a 8.6 Creedmoor and shoot super sonic loads, what is the point.

Just a question

J E CUSTOM

The 8.6 whatever-they're-calling-it is still under development by Hornady and a company named Q. So, no firm bullet weights, barrel twists, ft/lbs or ft/sec numbers are out yet. My logic does not reconcile with yours. But, I am no expert. So, please excuse my ignorance if I am missing something.

My logic is as follows: Atomic Ammo just came out with a subsonic 260gr 300 BLK they claim has 637 ft/lbs of energy at the muzzle. 8.6 would be a heavier subsonic bullet with more powder behind it (as it is a 308 case necked up to a 338 bullet). 300gr is the bullet weight I heard the 8.6 people mention in a video -- I'm hoping for heavier. Therefore, the 8.6 should have a lot more than 500 ft/lbs of energy at the muzzle. Of course, my logic depends heavily on Atomic Ammo's claim of 637 ft/lbs from a 260gr 300 BLK being true.

Basically, I want to hit my hogs with the hardest thumping subsonic bullet I can find. I can always just grab my 308 if I decide it's worth bothering the young family and elderly neighbors near me.

 

[Bravo 4]

Basically, I want to hit my hogs with the hardest thumping subsonic bullet I can find.

This is why I went with a .510 caliber for subsonic suppressed hunting. Nothing has ever taken a step when hit by it. I'm pushing a 825 grain subsonic fracturing bullet at 1000 fps and it carries over 1500 ft-lbs energy out to 200 yards. The petals that break off are the size of .243 bullets and the shank would penetrate an elk, maybe end to end. It is pretty impressive, I would pretty much hunt anything with it. Honestly to me if you want to hunt subsonic then go big bore. A buddy of mine has a .458 SOCOM pistol that he is working up loads for.

 

[J E Custom]

The 8.6 whatever-they're-calling-it is still under development by Hornady and a company named Q. So, no firm bullet weights, barrel twists, ft/lbs or ft/sec numbers are out yet. My logic does not reconcile with yours. But, I am no expert. So, please excuse my ignorance if I am missing something.

My logic is as follows: Atomic Ammo just came out with a subsonic 260gr 300 BLK they claim has 637 ft/lbs of energy at the muzzle. 8.6 would be a heavier subsonic bullet with more powder behind it (as it is a 308 case necked up to a 338 bullet). 300gr is the bullet weight I heard the 8.6 people mention in a video -- I'm hoping for heavier. Therefore, the 8.6 should have a lot more than 500 ft/lbs of energy at the muzzle. Of course, my logic depends heavily on Atomic Ammo's claim of 637 ft/lbs from a 260gr 300 BLK being true.

Basically, I want to hit my hogs with the hardest thumping subsonic bullet I can find. I can always just grab my 308 if I decide it's worth bothering the young family and elderly neighbors near me.

Hey, It is just a debate and I think you are very close to the correct energies at 637 with a 260 grain bullet at subsonic velocities. My understanding of shooting subsonic ammo is to minimize the sound.

Even with a can, these rifles are not silent like in the movies so when you shoot once everything starts running and you have to try running shots, and with the bullets time to target being so much more, running shots are very iffy.

I saw the mention of a 500 grain bullet for subsonic hunting' The closes thing to this would be a 500 S&W with 500 grain bullets that can produce 2254 ft/lbs of energy but at 1425 ft/sec and if you dropped the velocity to subsonic velocities. Velocity would be about 2/3rds and energy would be down by that much or more.

Bottom line is, everyone should shoot whatever they want to and enjoy them selves. If shooting subsonic's is your thing, go for it. where we hunt we don't have the luxury of hunting a few hogs, we have to kill everyone we see that is possible. so we have to hunt them with more energy and distance. with a fast bullet and plenty of energy running shots are not difficult. so that is why I prefer bigger and faster. I also need to set the shot up where two or more hogs will fall on the first shot. The most I have ever killed out of one sounder was 9 with a bolt action. (It was a good day for me, but a bad day for the hogs)

Just me

J E CUSTOM

 

[TXAoudadKlr]

A lot of sound will come from when the bullet impacts bone. Like if you drive a round into the skull or shoulder.

Main advantage I was told for subs is to not disturb another herd in a near by field.

 

[Mattpong]

Hey, It is just a debate and I think you are very close to the correct energies at 637 with a 260 grain bullet at subsonic velocities. My understanding of shooting subsonic ammo is to minimize the sound.

Even with a can, these rifles are not silent like in the movies so when you shoot once everything starts running and you have to try running shots, and with the bullets time to target being so much more, running shots are very iffy.

I saw the mention of a 500 grain bullet for subsonic hunting' The closes thing to this would be a 500 S&W with 500 grain bullets that can produce 2254 ft/lbs of energy but at 1425 ft/sec and if you dropped the velocity to subsonic velocities. Velocity would be about 2/3rds and energy would be down by that much or more.

Bottom line is, everyone should shoot whatever they want to and enjoy them selves. If shooting subsonic's is your thing, go for it. where we hunt we don't have the luxury of hunting a few hogs, we have to kill everyone we see that is possible. so we have to hunt them with more energy and distance. with a fast bullet and plenty of energy running shots are not difficult. so that is why I prefer bigger and faster. I also need to set the shot up where two or more hogs will fall on the first shot. The most I have ever killed out of one sounder was 9 with a bolt action. (It was a good day for me, but a bad day for the hogs)

Just me

J E CUSTOM

While I've never reloaded and don't know how to calculate energy, I have ten-plus silencers and have been hunting these hogs for over ten years. So, I have plenty of experience with 223 not even making them flinch versus 308 dropping them.

If I see a plack of 30 hogs, I'll go ahead and wake up my neighbors with my M-60. But, I would like to build up as much goodwill as possible by being as quiet as possible in between these occasional war-zone events. Hence my desire to be able to thump one or two in complete silence.

Thanks for helping. Much appreciated.

 

[Mattpong]

This is why I went with a .510 caliber for subsonic suppressed hunting. Nothing has ever taken a step when hit by it. I'm pushing a 825 grain subsonic fracturing bullet at 1000 fps and it carries over 1500 ft-lbs energy out to 200 yards. The petals that break off are the size of .243 bullets and the shank would penetrate an elk, maybe end to end. It is pretty impressive, I would pretty much hunt anything with it. Honestly to me if you want to hunt subsonic then go big bore. A buddy of mine has a .458 SOCOM pistol that he is working up loads for.

Awesome. Big project. But, I may need to do this as well.

Thanks for the idea.

 

[35 Whelen]

Remington missed the boat with the 244 alias 6mm, 280 alias 7mm express, and marketing the 260 with 140 grain bullets and then giving it a 1 in 10 twist.

I sincerely think they tried to: I mean how else can you miss that big of market, that many times in a row?

Remington missed it with the 6.5 Rem. Mag. and 350 Rem. Mag. by first only offering them in short barreled rifles that don't allow them to reach there full potential. Both very good cartridges but the short barrels all but killed them, with the 350 Rem. Mag. being the only one of the two to survive. They say the 6.5 CM's small case changes from that of the .260 make it a better round as well as the barrel twist. If I could afford to by 4 rifles, two .260's and two 6.5 CM's, all four of the same rifle make and model with one of each in 1-10 twist and one of each in 1-8 twist. Then I could work up loads for both cartridges in the same format and barrel twist and see just how they compare with every thing as equal as possible. I think I would find the same thing they found by giving the .223 Rem. faster barrel twist. At any rate it would be fun testing them in that way. Just need the money!

 

[Gord0]

This is why I went with a .510 caliber for subsonic suppressed hunting. Nothing has ever taken a step when hit by it. I'm pushing a 825 grain subsonic fracturing bullet at 1000 fps and it carries over 1500 ft-lbs energy out to 200 yards. The petals that break off are the size of .243 bullets and the shank would penetrate an elk, maybe end to end. It is pretty impressive, I would pretty much hunt anything with it. Honestly to me if you want to hunt subsonic then go big bore. A buddy of mine has a .458 SOCOM pistol that he is working up loads for.

I was just about to say someone just needs to sent a 750gr Amax at 1050fps.

 

[J E Custom]

While I've never reloaded and don't know how to calculate energy, I have ten-plus silencers and have been hunting these hogs for over ten years. So, I have plenty of experience with 223 not even making them flinch versus 308 dropping them.

If I see a plack of 30 hogs, I'll go ahead and wake up my neighbors with my M-60. But, I would like to build up as much goodwill as possible by being as quiet as possible in between these occasional war-zone events. Hence my desire to be able to thump one or two in complete silence.

Thanks for helping. Much appreciated.

Makes good sense to me

Keep the locals happy and keep taking the hogs.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Bravo 4]

For a long range target bullet, or if you were just happy knocking a .510 hole in something and didn't care for expansion, then that is a great choice. I based my rifle around them and what I sent in loaded with my dummies to make the reamer. The BC (1.05 G1) is about as high as you can get. At my altitude (basically sea level) it will lose only 100 fps all the way out to 600 yards. So if whatever you were hunting up close, it would have basically the same performance (theoretically) at 600. Be it the mortar that it is.
When I built it I purchased several hundred pulled FMJ's (M33) and several hundred API (M8). People have fun smacking steel with the API, the boom (with flash) on target at 100 is louder than the report of the rifle.