7saum

[bigngreen]

Re: Anybody shooting 195 EOL in 7SAUM w/ H-1000?

All I know is when I seat bullets to touch the rifling using a chamber gauge where the bullets end up, I have done seating tests on the 175EH, 180 HVLD, 180 Hybrid, 195 EH, 180 ELDM, 177 Hammer and 183 Matchkings. A dummy round is the only way to really nail seating because there is also the interaction with the lead angle and the ogive.
You do not want the bullet to seat at the neck shoulder junction with a lot of these bullets, if you measure there is a pressure ring at the bottom of the bearing surface so you don't want that seating at that edge so I set them up so the bullet seated with some jump will be above this junction OR down much deeper so the bullet is moving through it.

 

[Crowe284]

Re: Anybody shooting 195 EOL in 7SAUM w/ H-1000?

All I know is when I seat bullets to touch the rifling using a chamber gauge where the bullets end up, I have done seating tests on the 175EH, 180 HVLD, 180 Hybrid, 195 EH, 180 ELDM, 177 Hammer and 183 Matchkings. A dummy round is the only way to really nail seating because there is also the interaction with the lead angle and the ogive.
You do not want the bullet to seat at the neck shoulder junction with a lot of these bullets, if you measure there is a pressure ring at the bottom of the bearing surface so you don't want that seating at that edge so I set them up so the bullet seated with some jump will be above this junction OR down much deeper so the bullet is moving through it.

How much jump do you generally build in to your dummy taking into consideration that you want the bullet above neck shoulder junction?.....This is probably just a wild *** guess if I had to guess because you won't know where the bullet likes to be until load development...

What do you think about the 175 EH? How did it shoot for you? How much did it like to jump out of your rifle? I think it's a pretty attractive bullet for the saum with the hybrid design, high BC and the ability to probably get it close to 3k in a long action with 1000 or 26.

 

[bigngreen]

Re: Anybody shooting 195 EOL in 7SAUM w/ H-1000?

I never shot the 175 because they don't fit my throating but with a steel long action the SAUM will push 3000+ fps with a 180 hunting with a 26 in barrel.
I build them so I can jump .040 at most, most guys blow past multiple seating nodes by using to course of a seating test. I find myself messing more with hybrids to get a good seating node than vlds but I'm used to tuning them so I can usually be very close in very few rounds, you shoot enough of the same thing over and over you'll see patterns where a very little tuning between them puts you on.

 

[slowrunning]

Re: Anybody shooting 195 EOL in 7SAUM w/ H-1000?

It seems the velocity potential of the 7 SAUM gets underestimated quite a bit from the hypothetical numbers I've seen used (and used myself). Berger claims well over 2800fps out of a 24" barrel in a short action with a 180 and well over 2700 from the same rifle with a 195. With a lot of different powders. I would guess you can get the 195's to 2900 with your long action and 26" barrel, that would change things and I would say go for the 195.

Another thing I've noticed is Bergers numbers with 7828 SSC look very good, high velocities with every weight bullet and low case fill. I have some and dumped 57 grains in a 7 SAUM case just to see how full it was and it barely filled to the body-shoulder junction. That leaves plenty of room to run a 195 in a short action. I love H1000 but it takes up so much room, might not be the best in a 7 SAUM with a heavy bullet, especially in a short action.

In my short action, I still plan to run the 168's maybe throat it longer down the road if I'm not happy with them but in a long action, you can probably get enough velocity with a 195 to make it worth it.

 

[cdherman]

Re: Anybody shooting 195 EOL in 7SAUM w/ H-1000?

It seems the velocity potential of the 7 SAUM gets underestimated quite a bit from the hypothetical numbers I've seen used (and used myself). Berger claims well over 2800fps out of a 24" barrel in a short action with a 180 and well over 2700 from the same rifle with a 195. With a lot of different powders. I would guess you can get the 195's to 2900 with your long action and 26" barrel, that would change things and I would say go for the 195.

Another thing I've noticed is Bergers numbers with 7828 SSC look very good, high velocities with every weight bullet and low case fill. I have some and dumped 57 grains in a 7 SAUM case just to see how full it was and it barely filled to the body-shoulder junction. That leaves plenty of room to run a 195 in a short action. I love H1000 but it takes up so much room, might not be the best in a 7 SAUM with a heavy bullet, especially in a short action.

In my short action, I still plan to run the 168's maybe throat it longer down the road if I'm not happy with them but in a long action, you can probably get enough velocity with a 195 to make it worth it.

Just the experience of one guy talking here -- me...

I screwed a heavy Shilen Match grade barrel on my Short action savage (and SA Savages are generous). Had it throated to a dummy cartridge with a 180 gr Berger Hunting VLD. This was done to get the gun to be able to use the magazine. If you are willing to single feed and pull the bolt to eject a live round, then other rules apply.

The bullet was quite a ways inside the case. I never got it to shoot well enough to do 500+ yard work. About 1" at 100 was the best I could get, and that was erratic. tried the Hornady ELD-X 180, with same disappointment. The 168's would shoot somewhat better, best were .8", but still erratic. Tried H100, H4831SC, Norma MRP, one other I thnk....

I went through around 400 rounds. Switched to Norma Brass too (if you need brass, PM me) Never got things to work.

I gave up. Rebarreled to 6.5 Creed for the SA. Plan to purchase a LA and another 7 SAUM barrel eventually. I too love that cartridge. But it frustrated the heck out of me. I have Forster Match dies, and I will try the SAUM again, but intend to play with some other guns for a while first....

Dunno if I can recommend the SA for long range stuff.....

 

[Crowe284]

Re: Anybody shooting 195 EOL in 7SAUM w/ H-1000?

Yeah, I think to get max performance a long action is the ticket and seating seating Bullets out long to take advantage of case capacity. I currently have 200 Norma virgin brass with an assortment of Berger bullets. Really want to shoot the heavier bullets to take advantage of long action, 26" barrel and 8.24" twist. Just can't settle on exactly what to do. I'm obviously not confined by mag length but don't know which to throat for just yet. I would love to be able to shoot the 180's and 195's. The 195's are so wicked looking. I sometimes go into my reloading room and just pull one out and stare at it for 5 minutes and put it back in the box. Wicked....I feel like because I where I hunt where temps can be from 30 to 100F during hunting season, I need a really temp stable powder. The most temp stable powder I've ever used has been H1000 in the magnums. I can shoot it at all temps and my dope dosent change at least within the kill zone of a whitetail to 1k yds. Hoping I can figure it all out on what to do and be able to use 1000. I'm not looking to push the hell out of the 180 or 195 with the tons of BC both of them have. Some have commented on the ease of tuning the 195 while others say they have had an easier time with the 180. I just want to find a way to create a dummy for throating so I can use both but that might not be doable. Kinda scared to throat correctly for 195 then be stuck with it if gun dosent like it. There have been a few guys build the saum around the 195 and have really good luck with it at around 2830 fps with 1000......I don't know but I have to make up my mind at some point. Good thing at this point is that it will take until around December before my manners is ready, so....still have time to pick people's brains and hopefully get more input. Thanks to all who have replied thus far, hope the convo keeps going !

 

[Frank in the Laurels]

Just like every other short mag irreguardless of diameter..H-4350 is the way to go, now if you can only find a can on Earth..???

 

[Crowe284]

Hmmmm....haven't heard or read anything about using H4350 in a 7saum. I would think it would be too fast for the heavy bullets....

 

[slowrunning]

Crowe - you just need to set up your barrel for the 195's. Don't let guys like me talk you out of it. I don't think you'll really be happy unless you run them. You'll think about 195's and what could have been every time you load anything else! Chamber a little short and seat them deeper into the case if needed to still be able to use 180's and down.

 

[Zac Bishop]

Hey guys, I'm going to dig up this old thread as I've been researching this combination for a little while now. I'm hoping maybe two years later there is some more first hand experience and maybe some pet loads for the 195 EOL's in a long action 7 saum.
I have a Tikka action mated to a Proof 25.5" 1:8 barrel that I started out on a diet of 180 ELD-M's in front of 65 grains of H1000 and a COL of 3.105" and that gives me 2956 fps at the muzzle and averages 1/3 MOA at 300 yards. Furthest I've taken it is out to 1305 yards.
I bought the 195's because they're just so **** appealing and I've worked up some test loads starting at 62gr and going up by .5 grain increments with H1000 to 66 grains. I have the bullets seated at 3.205" and that's boat tail slightly above the base of the case neck. I have about the same volume in the case as with my 180's so that's why I took the powder charge up so high. I haven't fired them yet but I'm hoping I can get these to run 2900 fps or higher...
Am I crazy? Has anyone done something similar to this?

 

[cdherman]

No first hand knowledge, but lots of collateral damage. I had a 7 SAUM on a SA Savage action that would never quite shoot right. Throated to put the 180 Berger at max magazine length. Shilen. Shootng right for me, would have been consistently under .5 MOA. Just could not get there. Swore I'd never build another magnum cartridge on a SA.

In the meantime, the action became a 6.5 Creed. Dumb choice, but it does shoot very well.

Also have a 7 RM with a Proof carbon fiber barrel shooting the 195 EOL. Getting good velocity and accuracy. Groups always under 1 MOA, and have only 100 rds down barrel thus far. Some groups as small as 5 into .3 MOA. Velocity was decent, but I've not shot since last December. Major other stuff in life.....

The 7 SAUM case is not as capacious as the larger 7s. You may have trouble getting adequate velocity out of the 195. Even if you have it throated long (and you have correct twist of course.....) People say the same thing about the 7 RM too -- too small, has belt etc... Good luck....

 

[Rhovee]

I think the 195 is just a bit much for 7 saum. F class guys tried it and seem to have all switched back to 180 Hybrids. I'm having really good accuracy with the 184 Hybrids.

 

[Zac Bishop]

Update from this past weekends shooting and testing of the 195's in my 7 saum.
Overall I am extremely impressed with the accuracy and ES/ SD's throughout all loads. There were slight pressure signs of ejector marks on the brass but no worse than my 180gr load.
I found a sweet spot in my load development right in between 64.5- 65gr of H1000 with velocities in the 2915-2940fps range. I had an ES of 8 and SD 3.7 at 64.5gr powder and groups were 5 shots in 1/4"- 3/8" at 100 yards.
I've decided to load up 50pcs of weight separated brass loaded with 64.6 grains of powder and still seating my bullets at 3.2" which is 2.445" to ogive and will be trying them out at 1 mile at my next outing.
Now one thing I will add, the only advantage to these over the 180 ELD-M's is a touch more energy beyond 1200 yards. I'm deciding to run them based on the accuracy and consistency in the load and of course the cool factor.
Cheers

 

[highdrum]

Update from this past weekends shooting and testing of the 195's in my 7 saum.
Overall I am extremely impressed with the accuracy and ES/ SD's throughout all loads. There were slight pressure signs of ejector marks on the brass but no worse than my 180gr load.
I found a sweet spot in my load development right in between 64.5- 65gr of H1000 with velocities in the 2915-2940fps range. I had an ES of 8 and SD 3.7 at 64.5gr powder and groups were 5 shots in 1/4"- 3/8" at 100 yards.
I've decided to load up 50pcs of weight separated brass loaded with 64.6 grains of powder and still seating my bullets at 3.2" which is 2.445" to ogive and will be trying them out at 1 mile at my next outing.
Now one thing I will add, the only advantage to these over the 180 ELD-M's is a touch more energy beyond 1200 yards. I'm deciding to run them based on the accuracy and consistency in the load and of course the cool factor.
Cheers

Barrel length? That's smoking for the small case