7RM and 168VLD

[gpaw94]

Alright guys, slightly new build of a bergara ridge in a XLR chassis chambered in 7RM, 1:9.5 twist. I am shooting at 4500ish ft. This thing seems to be ultra picky and I am wondering if there is something else going on.
Factory federal, berger 168 classic ammo- amazing groups, 0.5" - 0.75" average out of 4 groups of 5. Ultra slow speeds compared to box rating, 2760fps avg. Vs 2870fps box.

Hornady precision hunter factory ammo 162gr eldx- hated it. Best group was 1.5", most hanging around around the 1.75-2.00"

Handloaded a ladder test of berger 168VLD using hornady brass bumped 0.004", bullet seated 0.010" off lands, about .
0.100" longer than samii. H1000 powder loaded from 67.0gr to 70gr in 0.5gr increments. 68.5gr shot the best. With 2930fps. SD of 11fps
Went to shoot groups today.. oddly would shoot 3 rounds in 0.500" with 2 flyers pushing the group out to 1.5"-2.0".
Other groups in the 0.75"-1.0" size.
Checked all bolts and retorqued with zero movement. I am wondering if this barrel is just not stabilizing the bullet as good as I thought it would.
Anybody else see anything simular, any directions I should take it. I have 3 weeks before a barbary sheep hunt and really wanted to use this thing. I have a 6.5CM with 100rds of 135gr classic ready to roll. Just wanted the 7RM to help buck the wind.

My 7rm loves N560 with the 168 bergers.

 

[Idaho Lefty]

I agree with another poster take your other rifle on the hunt and solve this issue later.

I believe I looked up the correct Federal ammo you first tried. It uses a classic hunter hybrid bullet! You are using a VLD. VLDs are more temperamental and IME like to be into the lands. I learned this from my 1000 yd BR friends. Sure you can eventually find a jump that will work too.

I suggest you get the classic hunter hybrid 168s and work up a load. It is as easy as seating the bullet to properly fit and feed from the magazine. They truly are seating depth insensitive. Just work up your powder charge from there. All the hunting rifles I have loaded this way have responded with excellent groups.

Just so you don't think I have only tried a few hybrids:

Rifles loaded with Berger hybrids to date:

7-08 168 classic hunter hybrid

284 win 168 classic hunter hybrid and 180 match target hybrid

four 7 Rem mags 168 classic hunter hybrid

7 mag and 180 hybrid target

308 Win 215 hybrid target

308 Win 168 classic hunter

Two 338 RCMs 300 gr hybrid target

6-284 95 gr classic hunter hybrid

300 WSM 230 gr target hybrid

two 300 Win mags 215 gr target hybrid

four 300 RUMs 230 gr target hybrid

two 338 RUMS with 300 gr hybrid OTM tactical

THIS,.. ^^^^
Skip, the H-1000 Powder and Try,. IMR 7828, or, Retumbo, in the 7 Rem Mag and the 168 grain. Berger, CLASSIC Hunters and you should Be, fine ! Bergers, VLD's,. can Be,. very "Picky" and the EXACT, Seat depth needs to be, found and,.. "Maintained" !
Classic's and Hybrids, ARE Much easier to, Tune ( I've Done several, also ! )
IMR 7828 was, the BEST Powder I used for Accuracy in Both, the 7mm Rem Mag and .270 WSM ( H-1000 Doesn't "Work well", in SOME Cartridges )
Good Luck !

 

[overinfinite]

Lots of good responses here, Thanks guys.
I think there was a bit of miscommunication on my end. the last photo of that I shared of groups is all shot at 68.5gr. I pulled that load from my ladder test.
My ladder test had 60 rounds- 6 loads of 10 from 68-70gr
68.0gr- 1.285"
68.0gr- 1.365"
68.5gr- 0.997"
68.5gr- 0.587"
69.0gr- 0.836"
69.0gr- 1.563" (Horizontal string- probably me)
69.5gr- 1.230"
69.5gr- 1.450"
70.0gr- 1.605" (vertical string- group is 0.780" wide)
70.0gr- 1.268" (Vertical string- group is only 0.350" wide)

My only thing was- this testing was abnormally warm, I could start to see mirage by shot 4 and heavy after 5 so my groups could have been better. I KNOW I should have probably slowed down but I was chasing daylight.

I then loaded up 25 rounds of 68.5gr all with the same 0.010" jump. went out to the range and put 4 groups on paper, most of which have horizontal stringing, although not severe. most are printing a 3 shot group in 0.25-0.30" range with flyers happening at any time in the shot sequence. for instance: 1 out, 2,3,4 in, 5 out. or 1,2,3 in, 4 and 5 out.

my thoughts are that I do have a backup rifle so I might as well play now to see if I can get this thing to shoot what I want.
I double checked the berger stability calculator- seems like it even I am 100fps slower than expected Iam still in the 1.6 ish SG- so stability should not be an issue.
I think I am going to load up the same 168VLD with 68.5gr H1000 but with seating depth:
1- 0.005" jump
2- 0.015" jump
3- 0.025" jump
4- 0.035" jump
5- 0.045" jump

Or should I do larger scales?
1- 0.005" jump
2- 0.025" jump
3- 0.050" jump
4- 0.075" jump
5- 0.100" jump

 

[southpa]

Lots of good responses here, Thanks guys.
I think there was a bit of miscommunication on my end. the last photo of that I shared of groups is all shot at 68.5gr. I pulled that load from my ladder test.
My ladder test had 60 rounds- 6 loads of 10 from 68-70gr
68.0gr- 1.285"
68.0gr- 1.365"
68.5gr- 0.997"
68.5gr- 0.587"
69.0gr- 0.836"
69.0gr- 1.563" (Horizontal string- probably me)
69.5gr- 1.230"
69.5gr- 1.450"
70.0gr- 1.605" (vertical string- group is 0.780" wide)
70.0gr- 1.268" (Vertical string- group is only 0.350" wide)

My only thing was- this testing was abnormally warm, I could start to see mirage by shot 4 and heavy after 5 so my groups could have been better. I KNOW I should have probably slowed down but I was chasing daylight.

I then loaded up 25 rounds of 68.5gr all with the same 0.010" jump. went out to the range and put 4 groups on paper, most of which have horizontal stringing, although not severe. most are printing a 3 shot group in 0.25-0.30" range with flyers happening at any time in the shot sequence. for instance: 1 out, 2,3,4 in, 5 out. or 1,2,3 in, 4 and 5 out.

my thoughts are that I do have a backup rifle so I might as well play now to see if I can get this thing to shoot what I want.
I double checked the berger stability calculator- seems like it even I am 100fps slower than expected Iam still in the 1.6 ish SG- so stability should not be an issue.
I think I am going to load up the same 168VLD with 68.5gr H1000 but with seating depth:
1- 0.005" jump
2- 0.015" jump
3- 0.025" jump
4- 0.035" jump
5- 0.045" jump

Or should I do larger scales?
1- 0.005" jump
2- 0.025" jump
3- 0.050" jump
4- 0.075" jump
5- 0.100" jump

The .010 increases is how i test. I have not found hybrids to be "less finicky" in any 7RM I shoot. All the ones I've been a part of liked VLDs better. Most of the time we run them up just under pressure and they shoot well at .010
However, some have liked .020-.040 or even further. But as always, you gotta let the barrel tell you that.
Im not sure if you specified where or if you found pressure? Most of them ive seen are running anywhere from 71-73ish for pressure with H1000 and it has always been a fantastic powder for 7RMs IMO. I'd like to think you have a little room left to go up?

 

[overinfinite]

The .010 increases is how i test. I have not found hybrids to be "less finicky" in any 7RM I shoot. All the ones I've been a part of liked VLDs better. Most of the time we run them up just under pressure and they shoot well at .010
However, some have liked .020-.040 or even further. But as always, you gotta let the barrel tell you that.
Im not sure if you specified where or if you found pressure? Most of them ive seen are running anywhere from 71-73ish for pressure with H1000 and it has always been a fantastic powder for 7RMs IMO.

No pressure signs at all. I will say there was a STARK difference in recoil from the factory federal ammo and any of my handloads. maybe I'll toss a couple loads at the 70-72 gr after the sheep hunt, just to see if there is anything in that range.

 

[WYO300RUM]

I have an older Ruger MII 7 Rem mag. I believe it's 9.25 twist. It loves Berger 168 Hunting VLD's. 73.0 grs. Retumbo.

 

[slv hunter]

Use Berger seating depth method and your groups should tighten up, if not move on to a different powder and try again.

 

[martyj]

4831 sc or Norma Mrp both will shoot 168 berger extremely well and along barrel life.
Won many of bets shooting golf balls with this combination at 100 yards.

 

[bamban]

I'll play. Pressure test @ 100 yards. Lone shot up top was 1st shot from bore sight. Adjusted for center to run loads

 

[Stormer11]

I would tinker with the seating depth but I'd go .020, .030 and maybe .040. I'm shooting the 168 vld's out of my Browing x-bolt and 68 grains of retumbo was the magic for me. I say was as I started to have some issues with groups and had begun reworking the load but before I could find it my 28 Nosler finshed being built and I went right into load work up for that. Sometime soon I'll start tinkering with the 7mm again.

 

[cajun]

Vld's can be picky. They might want to be jammed or .80 off.

 

[overinfinite]

just curious, have any of you guys cleaned up groups this large from seating depth. The most i've historically been able to shrink a group with seating depth is maybe 0.25"