7mm???

[WildRose]

First off, there is no attempt to pit you and Kirby against anyone or each other. If you think otherwise it's your imagination.

Second, you are exactly right. Kirby has done A LOT of shooting which is exactly my point. He also owns a few overbore long range hammers that the doesn't necessarily shoot very much. But he still owns them and hunts with them at long ranges.

Which just reinforces the points I made.

You don't become proficient at LR shooting and hunting without a lot of practice.

If you have room in your collection for rifles you aren't going to shoot much then the cost of going even more overbore is minimal.

"Most of us" however aren't in the club where cost/benefit analysis doesn't play a factor.

"Most" people visiting this site are stretching it to put together one good LR rig and they are going to learn the art of LR shooting with the same rifle they are building to hunt with and as a result all of those additional costs play a factor in their decisions of which caliber to start with.

All else aside, the "point of diminishing returns" still exists and for the 7mm's I believe once you reach the STW case, you have reached that point.

That does not mean there is no gain for pushing it faster, just that the returns are diminishing when you try to go bigger and you pay for that minimal gain with reduced barrel life and increased muzzle blast and recoil.

Is it worth it? Maybe it is for you, it is for some, it's not for me.

 

[bigngreen]

I have my reasons for wanting RUM brass, and the main reason is because they are not belted. I have a few tricks up my sleeve.

Your going to need tricks with RUM brass if your doing anything more than blowing it forward and out, just some friendly advice, get the basic case formed and figure that out before having reamers cut!!!!

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Which just reinforces the points I made.

You don't become proficient at LR shooting and hunting without a lot of practice.

If you have room in your collection for rifles you aren't going to shoot much then the cost of going even more overbore is minimal.

"Most of us" however aren't in the club where cost/benefit analysis doesn't play a factor.

"Most" people visiting this site are stretching it to put together one good LR rig and they are going to learn the art of LR shooting with the same rifle they are building to hunt with and as a result all of those additional costs play a factor in their decisions of which caliber to start with.

All else aside, the "point of diminishing returns" still exists and for the 7mm's I believe once you reach the STW case, you have reached that point.

That does not mean there is no gain for pushing it faster, just that the returns are diminishing when you try to go bigger and you pay for that minimal gain with reduced barrel life and increased muzzle blast and recoil.

Is it worth it? Maybe it is for you, it is for some, it's not for me.

We agree that a rifle like the 7 RUM should not be our only LR rifle, unless we have some extra $$$ for the barrels and smithing which I thought I made clear a few posts ago.

As for muzzle blast and recoil, "most of us" accept the muzzle blast as part of the price of shooting hunting cartridges to long ranges and use muzzle brakes to tame the recoil. Muzzle blast and recoil have never been much of an issue with me and my first 300 RUM did not have a brake. I just dealt with it without dwelling on it.

And we agree that there is diminishing returns with going to larger cases in the same cal. The same could be said with going from the RM to the STW or the going from the 284 to the RM. The question is what does the individual want?

Which brings us back to the OP. IMO, for what the OP was looking for, the 284 is a perfect fit. The 7-08 would do well also. For 500 yd deer hunting, the STW has a heck of a lot of muzzle blast, recoil and barrel life issues. Now if the OP had said he was interested in extending his hunting range to 1000 yds as he got proficient, I would agree that the STW would be a good fit, although if it were me I would pick the 7 LRM or Dakota.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Your going to need tricks with RUM brass if your doing anything more than blowing it forward and out, just some friendly advice, get the basic case formed and figure that out before having reamers cut!!!!

That right there is some good advise

 

[MudRunner2005]

Muzzle blast for STW...I'll give you that one. 1,000-1500 rounds of barrel life might not be the best, but it's better than some. And as far as recoil goes, I'd be willing to bet that my un-braked Sendero STW will have alot less recoil than a .300 RUM. The recoil is not bad at all.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Muzzle blast for STW...I'll give you that one. 1,000-1500 rounds of barrel life might not be the best, but it's better than some. And as far as recoil goes, I'd be willing to bet that my un-braked Sendero STW will have alot less recoil than a .300 RUM. The recoil is not bad at all.

Dude..... we're talking about the 284 vs the STW.... not the 300 RUM

 

[MudRunner2005]

Sorry....Just pulling a YOU.



Anyway, so we're back to .284 vs 7mm RM or 7mm STW? I need to get my facts straight so I can switch them up mentally if we're back on 7RM...

 

[MudRunner2005]

Hey Mark, can you do me a huge favor and run the overbore numbers for a .257 Wby Mag? I can't seem to find it anywhere on the web.

 

[WildRose]

We agree that a rifle like the 7 RUM should not be our only LR rifle, unless we have some extra $$$ for the barrels and smithing which I thought I made clear a few posts ago.

As for muzzle blast and recoil, "most of us" accept the muzzle blast as part of the price of shooting hunting cartridges to long ranges and use muzzle brakes to tame the recoil. Muzzle blast and recoil have never been much of an issue with me and my first 300 RUM did not have a brake. I just dealt with it without dwelling on it.

And we agree that there is diminishing returns with going to larger cases in the same cal. The same could be said with going from the RM to the STW or the going from the 284 to the RM. The question is what does the individual want?

Which brings us back to the OP. IMO, for what the OP was looking for, the 284 is a perfect fit. The 7-08 would do well also. For 500 yd deer hunting, the STW has a heck of a lot of muzzle blast, recoil and barrel life issues. Now if the OP had said he was interested in extending his hunting range to 1000 yds as he got proficient, I would agree that the STW would be a good fit, although if it were me I would pick the 7 LRM or Dakota.

Then perhaps you should read the OP again. 500yds is his current limit but wants a rifle and caliber which will allow him to expand that range as his skill level increases.

500yds is his proposed starting limit, not end point.

... .right now long range hunting wont be more than 400 to 500 yards, i have places that i cant shoot further but right now im gonna limit myself to no more than 500 yards, ill shoot further as i learn more about shooting long range.. .

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Hey Mark, can you do me a huge favor and run the overbore numbers for a .257 Wby Mag? I can't seem to find it anyone on the web.

It is simple to do yourself. Here's how....

First you calculate the area of the throat which is, Pi x radius squared. The radius is half the cal or bore diameter.

3.14 x (.1285x.1285) = .0518

Then you get the case capacity, which I get from Ammoguide and divide the capacity by the throat area.

80.3/.0518 = 1550.2

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Then perhaps you should read the OP again. 500yds is his current limit but wants a rifle and caliber which will allow him to expand that range as his skill level increases.

500yds is his proposed starting limit, not end point.

Fair enough, then I would recomend the 7 LRM or 7 Dakota. Both have better brass than the STW, the Dakota being made by Norma and the LRM being made by Hornady, and have a little more efficient case design.

or....

Get the 284 now, practice and hunt with it and then later get one of the above and the 284 could be kept for more efficient and pleasant trigger time.

 

[WildRose]

Fair enough, then I would recomend the 7 LRM or 7 Dakota. Both have better brass than the STW, the Dakota being made by Norma and the LRM being made by Hornady, and have a little more efficient case design.

or....

Get the 284 now, practice and hunt with it and then later get one of the above and the 284 could be kept for more efficient and pleasant trigger time.

Now see how easy that was?

You get to make your recommendations based on your experience and criteria, and the rest of us get to do the same.

Like I said, of someone wants to own and shoot something hotter than the 7mm STW they are welcome to do so, but when I look at the diminishing returns, it's simply not worth it to me.

 

[bigngreen]

In the Savage long action the LRM would be the ticket, besides being a very well design case it will fit the action better than other cases that will push a bullet at that level.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Now see how easy that was?

You get to make your recommendations based on your experience and criteria, and the rest of us get to do the same.

Like I said, of someone wants to own and shoot something hotter than the 7mm STW they are welcome to do so, but when I look at the diminishing returns, it's simply not worth it to me.

The worth of it is in the eye of the beholder and I can understand your point of view. With the Dakota nad the LRM, they are essentially the same ballistically as the STW and all 3 are good 1 K rifles because they get there with a little extra smack vs the 7RM which barely gets there. Much beyond that range and I think it's time to step up a little and that's why I have a 300 RUM vs a WM or WSM. Some guys like to see how far they cam possibly stretch their rifle. I like the idea of getting there with a little extra.

As for the dimishing returns of the 7 RUM, I think it's too overbore to be very efficient but the is changing with changing technology. As I mentioned, RL33 will probably become the powder for the 7 RUM and when the 195 EOL comes out it will shed a whole new light on the 7 RUM. And with the technology of nitride treating of barrels, the barrel life issue will probably greatly fade, if a guy invests in his barrel.