7mm Rem. Mag vs 300 Win. Mag

[overbo]

I favor the 300 for versatility.
If I wanted a deer only caliber.I would go w/ the 270 weatherby mag and a 300 mag for larger than deer game.

 

[load]

Sounds great. And, your point is very relevant if you want to shoot an Elk (or larger).

However, you're suggesting that bullet weight is the only way to compare apples to apples. As such, then a 168gr 30 cal won't stand a chance against the 168gr 7mm on paper. Although, it'll still be adequate to get the job done.

A 168g Berger will smoke deer well past 700 yds.

And, the average guy is likely to be more accurate/precise with a 168gr 7RM than with a 230g 300WM.

Both are great cartridges and everybody should own one or both.

-- richard

well sence were comparing apples to oranges here the
7mm will shoot the 162 grain amax with with 14.25 moa of drop at 700 yrds at 2950 fps
the 300 win mag will shoot a 168 grain berger match at 3200 and at 700 yrds and 13.6 moa of drop.
so using your same type of criteria the 300 still comes out on top
even if you use the berger168 grain 7mm at the top loading of 2950 you still have 14.4 moa of drop the 300 still beats it using the same berger 168 grain weight. the 300 has more powder behind it and uses powder more efficiently gun) you dont see a change until you hit around 1000 yrds which is were, if you use a ballistically similar bullet, again the 300 will win out as the 7mm has lost to much energy

 

[brentc]

well sence were comparing apples to oranges here the
7mm will shoot the 162 grain amax with with 14.25 moa of drop at 700 yrds at 2950 fps
the 300 win mag will shoot a 168 grain berger match at 3200 and at 700 yrds and 13.6 moa of drop.
so using your same type of criteria the 300 still comes out on top
even if you use the berger168 grain 7mm at the top loading of 2950 you still have 14.4 moa of drop the 300 still beats it using the same berger 168 grain weight. the 300 has more powder behind it and uses powder more efficiently gun) you dont see a change until you hit around 1000 yrds which is were, if you use a ballistically similar bullet, again the 300 will win out as the 7mm has lost to much energy

Not to push buttons here, but the 162 in a 7mm Rem is more like 3050 fps, and 3025 for the Berger is considered normal for handloads. You need to compare realistic velocity along with BC to get to the real comparison here. We generally don't care much for differences in bullet drop because it is easy to compensate for. What we really care about is downrange performance with energy, velocity, and wind resistance.

It is a scientific fact that the 7mm Rem with a bullet somewhere in the mid 160's for weight with BCs of above .600 shot at a modest velocity of 3000 fps will deliver more downrange energy than a 300 WM with the same weight bullet at modest velocity of 3125 fps. You can even stretch it 3200 fps and the 7mm will still outrun it to 1000. .308 bullets in the 165-168 range are in the high .400 to low .500 for BC, which severely limits it's downrange capabilities compared to the much higher BC of the same weight bullet in the 7mm. Don't believe me? Run the numbers.

To get the full effect of the 300 WM you need to step into the high BC bullets. The lower BC of even the best 168 in a 300 WM won't keep up. The magic number for the 300 WM starts at around .550 BC at achievable velocities to match a 7mm Rem with a 162 or 168. You won't get there with .308 bullets in the 165-168 range.

You're comparing an area in which the 7mm Rem is at it's best, and the 300 WM isn't hitting it's stride yet.

 

[rscott5028]

well sence were comparing apples to oranges here the
7mm will shoot the 162 grain amax with with 14.25 moa of drop at 700 yrds at 2950 fps
the 300 win mag will shoot a 168 grain berger match at 3200 and at 700 yrds and 13.6 moa of drop.
so using your same type of criteria the 300 still comes out on top
even if you use the berger168 grain 7mm at the top loading of 2950 you still have 14.4 moa of drop the 300 still beats it using the same berger 168 grain weight. the 300 has more powder behind it and uses powder more efficiently gun) you dont see a change until you hit around 1000 yrds which is were, if you use a ballistically similar bullet, again the 300 will win out as the 7mm has lost to much energy

In the context of the original post which was about shooting deer as far as 700yds, both cartridges are more than adequate with a lot of bullet options.

I'm going by my rule of thumb which is around 1800 fps and 1000 ft-lbs at impact. Naturally, you have to hit what you're aiming at. But, dead is dead.

If I follow your logic correctly, the guy should get a 338 Edge+P and shoot 300gr bullets as it will have a lot more enrgy a lot farther out than the 300WM.

I dial for elevation past point blank range. So, drop isn't nearly as important to me as windage, adequate impact velocity for expansion, retained energy, and sectional density.

This is what NF came up with...

7RM 168g .284 berger .617 BC, mv 2900fps, 10Mph wind
500 yds - 8.63 elev - 12.6" wind - 2227 fps - 1850 ft-lbs
700 yds - 14.75 elev - 26.0" wind - 1993 fps - 1481 ft-lbs
1000 yds - 25.75 elev - 57.9" wind - 1672 fps - 1042 ft-lbs

300WM 168g .308 berger .473 BC, mv 3200fps, 10Mph wind
500 yds - 7.25 elev - 14.7" wind - 2309 fps - 1989 ft-lbs
700 yds - 12.75 elev - 30.8" wind - 2000 fps - 1492 ft-lbs
1000 yds - 23.50 elev - 70.3" wind - 1589 fps - 942 ft-lbs

It looks like a dead heat at 700yds with the 7mm having a slight edge on wind and sectional density. Either one is more than adequate to kill deer at that range.

With more recoil and higher cost per practice round, you can get more down range energy out of the 300WM.

I haven't pushed the 230gr OTM over 2500fps from my 300WM. But, I'm not using the best powder nor have I seen any pressure signs either. I suspect it'll top at around 2700fps. But, according to Quick Load, it'll do 2796 with RE50.

300WM 230g .308 berger OTM .719 BC, mv 2800fps, 10Mph wind
500 yds - 9.25 elev - 12.2" wind - 2197 fps - 2464 ft-lbs
700 yds - 15.50 elev - 25.1" wind - 1979 fps - 2000 ft-lbs
1000 yds - 26.75 elev - 55.4" wind - 1678 fps - 1439 ft-lbs

I just don't see that big of an advantage for deer at 700yds which is what the OP was asking about.

Clearly the 300WM with the big bullets and more recoil carries more energy for bigger game. But, recoil is subjective. So, everyone needs to decide for themselves.

I have both and don't really care which one you pick. If I'm going after deer and 700yds is the farthest I'll shoot. I'm going to use my 6.5x284 with 142 SMKs or 140 Bergers.

They're all good and you can't own too many guns.

-- richard

 

[Jam smith]

I favor the 300 for versatility.
If I wanted a deer only caliber.I would go w/ the 270 weatherby mag and a 300 mag for larger than deer game.

Totally agree.

 

[Joe King]

In the context of the original post which was about shooting deer as far as 700yds, both cartridges are more than adequate with a lot of bullet options.

I'm going by my rule of thumb which is around 1800 fps and 1000 ft-lbs at impact. Naturally, you have to hit what you're aiming at. But, dead is dead.

If I follow your logic correctly, the guy should get a 338 Edge+P and shoot 300gr bullets as it will have a lot more enrgy a lot farther out than the 300WM.

I dial for elevation past point blank range. So, drop isn't nearly as important to me as windage, adequate impact velocity for expansion, retained energy, and sectional density.

This is what NF came up with...

7RM 168g .284 berger .617 BC, mv 2900fps, 10Mph wind
500 yds - 8.63 elev - 12.6" wind - 2227 fps - 1850 ft-lbs
700 yds - 14.75 elev - 26.0" wind - 1993 fps - 1481 ft-lbs
1000 yds - 25.75 elev - 57.9" wind - 1672 fps - 1042 ft-lbs

300WM 168g .308 berger .473 BC, mv 3200fps, 10Mph wind
500 yds - 7.25 elev - 14.7" wind - 2309 fps - 1989 ft-lbs
700 yds - 12.75 elev - 30.8" wind - 2000 fps - 1492 ft-lbs
1000 yds - 23.50 elev - 70.3" wind - 1589 fps - 942 ft-lbs

It looks like a dead heat at 700yds with the 7mm having a slight edge on wind and sectional density. Either one is more than adequate to kill deer at that range.

With more recoil and higher cost per practice round, you can get more down range energy out of the 300WM.

I haven't pushed the 230gr OTM over 2500fps from my 300WM. But, I'm not using the best powder nor have I seen any pressure signs either. I suspect it'll top at around 2700fps. But, according to Quick Load, it'll do 2796 with RE50.

300WM 230g .308 berger OTM .719 BC, mv 2800fps, 10Mph wind
500 yds - 9.25 elev - 12.2" wind - 2197 fps - 2464 ft-lbs
700 yds - 15.50 elev - 25.1" wind - 1979 fps - 2000 ft-lbs
1000 yds - 26.75 elev - 55.4" wind - 1678 fps - 1439 ft-lbs

I just don't see that big of an advantage for deer at 700yds which is what the OP was asking about.

Clearly the 300WM with the big bullets and more recoil carries more energy for bigger game. But, recoil is subjective. So, everyone needs to decide for themselves.

I have both and don't really care which one you pick. If I'm going after deer and 700yds is the farthest I'll shoot. I'm going to use my 6.5x284 with 142 SMKs or 140 Bergers.

They're all good and you can't own too many guns.

-- richard

This is what I came up with
168gr Berger Classic hunter G7 BC 0.309
MV 2970
100yrd zero
700yrd drop = 13.87 MOA
700rds vel/energy 1992/1480lbs
with no brake I can still control recoil enough to see hits from 300 out.

Honestly though their both more than whats required for that range for deer, but whats the fun in settling for just adequate.

 

[captacademy]

Wow! This is a very interesting post on the data for both 7RM and 300WM.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

I for one have always used either the 7stw or 300 win. The 7rem is hobbled by pressure limitations because of chamber variances and the load data is flaky at best. The 7mm stw and 300 win both deliver 4000 foot-pounds at the muzzle and a foot-ton at 400 yards with any decent bullet. I've killed a few critters with the 7rem and they do die, but it is just a lesser round in the field from my experience.
Get a 7rem in a rem or win and re-chamber it to 7stw. Don't look back.

 

[Scot E]

Just a thought to ponder in your decision making process!

Shots to 700 yards on deer don't require a magnum cartridge to get stellar performance. In fact it can be done quite easily and effectively with many of the 6.5's. If I was sure this was only going to be a deer only gun out to 700 yards or so I wouldn't be looking at 7mm or 30 cal. I would look really hard at the 6.5x47, 260 Rem, 6.5x55, or the 6.5x284. They offer excellent ballistics and reduced recoil.

I personally would choose the 6.5x55 as it will give me ample performance, great barrel life and minimal recoil in a light weight no brake package. I will spend a lot less money on powder and bullets as well.

Now if anything bigger than deer had a chance of being in the mix then it would be 30 cal all the way.

Scot E.

 

[jehu]

I ended up with a Sako Grey Wolf in 7RM topped with a Swarovski 4-16X50, I shot some crop damage deer this summer with Hornady 139gr SST super performance and the 7 was awesome.

 

[Harris]

I also have both guns mabe it's just me but I would much rather shoot my browning 300 win mag than my 7mm remington 700 recoil on the 7 is a bitch

 

[captacademy]

Jehu, what were the distances you shot the deer at? Details please.

 

[jehu]

The longest was 400yrds with plenty shot between 300-350yds. I am looking forward to streaching it out to 5-600yrds.

 

[captacademy]

I am having a rifle re-barreled to 7mm Rem mag and plan on shooting the 180 berger VLD's. I have heard great things about this load.