7mm or 30 cal? Just for curiosity’s sake

[Calvin45]

Paladin300.
I don't sweat the recoil or even consider it when choosing a cartridge.
I sho my 10.5lb 375 Bee from prone and it does not have a brake on it.
In fact, the only rifle I own with a brake on it is my 338-416 Rigby Improved. It needs one.
I wouldn't say I like recoil, but I have no problems with shooting my 416 Rigby or 458 Lott off a bench, the only rifle I have owned that was brutal was my 9lb 505 Gibbs. 600g bullets at 2350fps was too much for me. Needed to be 12lb minimum to tame that recoil.
My 500 Nitro double is a pussycat shooting 570g @ 2150fps in it's 15lb weight range.
Recoil pulse has a lot to do with felt recoil.
My 7STW feels sharper than my 300WM, both Sendero rifles and weigh virtually the same.

Cheers.

Absolutely. The weight of the rifle is a huge factor. Ultimately I agree with you, it's not how much shove is there it's how fast it happens. You get pushed by a big guy or punched by a little guy...regardless of who is more powerful the punchy one hurts more . Worst recoiling gun for me (especially when I first shot it at the age of 11 or 12) is dads old Brazilian made single shot 12 gauge. Maybe weighs 6 pounds, perhaps even less. Break action. Steel buttplate. Made the mistake of shooting slugs through that jerk of a gun from prone. Oooouch!!!! The .375s I've shot have nothing on that mean little shotgun!!!

 

[Paladin300]

Paladin300.
I don't sweat the recoil or even consider it when choosing a cartridge.
I sho my 10.5lb 375 Bee from prone and it does not have a brake on it.
In fact, the only rifle I own with a brake on it is my 338-416 Rigby Improved. It needs one.
I wouldn't say I like recoil, but I have no problems with shooting my 416 Rigby or 458 Lott off a bench, the only rifle I have owned that was brutal was my 9lb 505 Gibbs. 600g bullets at 2350fps was too much for me. Needed to be 12lb minimum to tame that recoil.
My 500 Nitro double is a pussycat shooting 570g @ 2150fps in it's 15lb weight range.
Recoil pulse has a lot to do with felt recoil.
My 7STW feels sharper than my 300WM, both Sendero rifles and weigh virtually the same.

Cheers.

Magnum Maniac,

If I had to guess I would say none of those rifles you mentioned above are factory guns or rather are high end well made rifles. I have owned several 375 H&Hs and a 458 Lott. Two of the 375s you could shoot free bore from a bench, the other three including the 458 kicked lick ten mules. One of those guns I still own and shoot from time to time it is a Sako 85. Shoots like a dream. All the recoil comes straight back into the pocket of the shoulder with little to no muzzle rise, the factory recoil pad allows for an even push. Great rifle design! The other one was a custom made FN Mauser built in England. None of the guns sport brakes. The 458 was a factory 700 African and the other two were custom Winchesters a model 70 classic and a pre 64, those dudes all killed on both ends. The custom classic if you shot it more than two or three times would take you a couple of days to get over! As I said originally, build quality, the shape, fit and finish, and bedding of the stock matter when shooting big bores. A poorly built small caliber rifle can cover up a few flaws but not so with the big boys!

For the record the worst kicking rifles I ever shot were a pair of Weatherby Mark Vs. One was a 6 1/2 lbs 300 wby, slapped you quick and sharp like you had just offended her honor and the other a 460 wby with a 20" barrel. I still haven't gotten over the 460, big girl about took papa out! Shot a few factory Winchester M70 classics in poorly built stocks in 30-06 and 300 WM that weren't much better. IMHO stock and build quality matter far more than caliber when it comes to recoil and magnum rifles.

For the purposes of this particular forum and continuing to answer the OP's original question I will state for the record, for all of the reason I have before mentioned in several post, I will take a moderate to fast twist 300 WM over a fast 7mm Rem Mag. Particularly, when hunting game the size of elk or larger and especially if said critter has a lot of teeth and a bad attitude!

I am a 30 cal or bigger fan!!!

Blessings Friend!

 

[MagnumManiac]

Yes, well most of my rifles are not stock, but some are.
I like 33's and 37's for toothy critters, and 41's or 45's for horned critters that can crush you into the ground.
I often use my 33's and 37's on deer, they work well and I can eat right up to the hole most of the time...except once when I shot a Fallow deer in the butt, quartering away, and it's entire left ham disappeared! Was shooting the 260g 375 Ballistic Tips @ 3000fps outta the 375 Bee. It made a huge mess and all that was found of that bullet was the green plastic tip! I could literally pass my fist and arm into it's pelvic cavity with the hole that was left behind. Never used those bullets again. That particular rifle is a New Haven Classic Stainless that I bought new to re-chamber. It wears a HS Precision Sporter stock, worked trigger and later style one piece bottom metal.

Cheers.

 

[CBH Australia]

Interesting comment

Recoil pulse has a lot to do with felt recoil.
My 7STW feels sharper than my 300WM, both Sendero rifles and weigh virtually the same.

Something similar above in technical terms.

Well, I'm happy to have the .280ai and .300wm , seems like a good compromise.

 

[CCAguns]

Despite beliefs to the contrary, there's nothing 3000fps can do that 2900fps doesn't do, except increase barrel wear. I owned and shot a 7mmSTW for years without a muzzle brake and had no problems except for the heavy rifle it came in. As P.O. Ackley stated, "When comparing two cartridges shooting similar weight projectiles at similar velocities, the advantage will always be with the larger caliber." This is expert testimony, not opinion from amateurs. Paper ballistics are nice to argue, but fail all too often in the hunting world.

The 30-06 owned the 1000 yard target category at events like Camp Perry for many years and is certainly no slouch for shooting long range. I get over 3000 fps with Hornady Superperformance ammo in 150gr in my standard barrel length (22") 30-06, which is 1-1/2 pounds lighter than my 7 Mag. But my hunting load is a 180gr Nosler Partition at 2820 fps in the 30-06. It has taken deer, elk, nilgai, caribou, & oryx. I'm certain it could take elephant under the right circumstances.

Everyone has their personal target caliber, and all choices in an accurate rifle will work for targets. But for killing and RECOVERING game, it's tough to beat the 30-06 as an all-around hunting caliber!

 

[WahooYahoo]

As P.O. Ackley stated, "When comparing two cartridges shooting similar weight projectiles at similar velocities, the advantage will always be with the larger caliber."
Exceptions:
With regard to penetration - the advantage will always be the smaller diameter caliber.
With regard to long-range shooting - the advantage will always be the smaller diameter caliber.

 

[CBH Australia]

As P.O. Ackley stated, "When comparing two cartridges shooting similar weight projectiles at similar velocities, the advantage will always be with the larger caliber."
Exceptions:
With regard to penetration - the advantage will always be the smaller diameter caliber.
With regard to long-range shooting - the advantage will always be the smaller diameter caliber.

All things being equal he probably said that many years ago.
What did he mean by it?
The technology has changed, I am sure projectiles have evolved.
I expect hunting styles have changed a bit.
I reckon long range hunting is now more common and is the new normal using bullets to suit the application.
If the comparison was say a .270 vs.30-06 under 200 yards on game with a comparable projectile of the time then the .30-06 and the bigger .30 probably almost always caused more damage and quicker kills.
One thing we can't do is repeatedly take the same shot on the same game animal for comparison.
Penetration and wound channel tests can only be accurately repeated on testing medium.

 

[Paladin300]

As P.O. Ackley stated, "When comparing two cartridges shooting similar weight projectiles at similar velocities, the advantage will always be with the larger caliber."
Exceptions:
With regard to penetration - the advantage will always be the smaller diameter caliber.
With regard to long-range shooting - the advantage will always be the smaller diameter caliber.

The absolute truth and thus ,proper and better quote for LRH purposes is this, "When shooting bullets with similar SDs at similar velocities the advantage always goes to the larger caliber." Similarly, "when shooting bullets of identical weight at identical velocities in identical guns the larger caliber will recoil less." It could also be argued that the larger caliber offers more versatility for the simple fact that it offers a larger range of projectile weights. The larger projectile will also carry more energy when shooting bullets of equal SDs. It really is a matter of simple physics. The smaller caliber's only advantage is recoil when shooting a lighter weight bullet. You also gain some advantages in bc when shooting equal weights but that is quickly lost when SD is the same. The larger bullet will deliver more efficient terminal results in this case. The 7mm will shoot a little flatter but the 30 will deliver more energy and a larger wound cavity. The smaller caliber shooting similar weights and velocities, all other things being equal, will also have a significant reduction in barrel life. Again, all things being equal, I think the many advantages of the larger caliber out weigh the few of the smaller, thus I think P.O Ackley's statement stands in some regards particularly as it relates to energy and recoil.

 

[nmbarta]

the above could be said said for .22 vs .338. Some is valid, some is not.it all comes down to how much recoil you can handle in the rifle you want to shoot. That's it, end of story.
The advantage will always go to the the bigger bullet with the highest bc's you can get at the highest velocity you can get, that is simple math.
that said, a similar 180 .284 cal bullet @ 3000 will outrun a 180 .300 cal bullet at the the same velocity....simple math.
The same can be said for 338 vs 300, or 375 vs 338.
There is a valid reason to shoot big heavy bullets, you just need a bigger heavier gun to handle them.
For me, .284 does what I need, and I skip the 300's and 338's and go to 375 because of recoil.
I want high bc bullets at high velocity, with tolerable recoil, for me that ends at .284 for hunting rifles. For other's that might end at 300 or 338.
Sd, doesn't take over bc when it comes to long range shooting.
a 180 class bullet in 284 at 3000 will out run a 180 class 300 bullet at 3000 every time, given it's a similar bullet. Recoil difference will be unnoticeable in my experience.
Bigger heavier higher bc bullets at higher velocity outperform, slower lighter smaller bullets in every way other than recoil, and in some cases, barrel life.....which, despite what you might read, is a small part of the cost.

 

[jbquack1]

I went with a 28 Nosler when I had my rifle built. First 7mm rifle I've owned. Has done well on Elk, that being said, I'm sure a 30 caliber would do just as well.

 

[Stgraves260]

Question says it all. The 22s, 6mm, 6.5, and .338 bore are all pretty common here but it I think it's safe to say the big 7mms and 30s are the unchallenged all range all purpose hunting versatility kings. I bet pretty much everyone on here has at least one 7mm or 30 caliber rifle.

im a 30 guy myself, .300 win mag being my favourite cartridge to play with, .30-30 being what I learned to shoot centerfire rifle with.

but I only bought my first .300 because my other rifle was a .270 win and I wanted a more significant difference in performance than what a 7 would gain. No regrets. But if I didn't already have a 270 I may have gone 7mm mag and had no reason for a .300 or a 270, who knows?

the 7mms are objectively the best of all worlds for long range hit probability. The 180 eld m for example has a bc of .79. There are no similar bc bullets of lesser diameter that I'm aware of and to exceed this bc significantly starts at the 250 atip or such. That's a huge jump. Not to many 30s, if any, will be launching a 225-250 grain at comprable speeds to a 7stw or 28 Nosler with that 180, and if they do it won't be in as portable or pleasant to shoot package.

that said, I maintain the big 30s hit and affect big game very noticeably harder than the 6.5, .270, and 7mm cartridges so they get the nod from me

Now for the just for fun question. If you could only own and shoot either a 7mm or a .30, not both, which would you choose?

Id go 7mm RUM myself. That or a 7-300 WM. Load up some 195 grain Berger's and call it a day.

 

[Calvin45]

Well this has resulted in one good conversation. The more numbers come in the more clearly it's all but a draw for us here.

I think I'll do a few more threads like this just for those of us who like shooting the breeze about shooting our rifles haha.

Thanks all.

 

[Varberger757]

Have had and still have rifles chambered for both '30 cal and 7mm. My choice is 7mm (7x64 Brenneke) all day long. I don't see or have experienced that the 30' cal did perform any better on game. Mostly using 7x64 and then 308 W. My 300 WM and 30 - 06 AI are unfortunately collecting dust only, and the 300 WM will be replaced by a rifle, which is getting rechambered in 8x64S ('323), and that's my all time favorite.

 

[wiiicgun]

My choice was the7mmSTW stainless rem sendero . No regrets!