7mm Berger 180 Hybrids

[41magnut]

Actually, Berger does make hybrid hunting bullets. Their Elite series are a hybrid design. For example the 140 Elite Hunter is nearly identical to the 140 Hybrid Target except that it supposedly has a slightly thinner jacket to allow for better expansion in hunting scenarios.......

I stand corrected in that Berger does make a Hybrid Hunting 7MM bullet.
The original topic referred to referred to 180 grain bullets, so my posting should have been worded differently.
The basis of my stance of not using target bullets for taking game animals stands.

 

[Bill28]

First off I'm not posting this to bash a bullet or the company. This post is for information and to apply it as you see fit
After a questionable performance this last fall on a bull elk I just had the chance to discover the problem.
I found that this lot of bullets I have had almost non existent cavities in the hollow point.
I went through all of this lot with a pin vise and a 27 thousandth drill bit to open all the tips up to the lead core.
I ran into this with the 195's also but didn't think twice it would happen on the 180's with past experiences.
I'll be checking all my bergers now.
Thought I'd share my findings so others could learn.

one experience I witnessed was a cow elk standing broadside at less than 50 yards took 3 perfect shots from a 338 shooting Hornady's 250 interlock. She just stood there as he was reloading i asked him where he was aiming the look he gave was well, anyway just as he was about to shoot again she took a step forward and dropped. The hole on the offside was the biggest I've ever seen. Sometimes they don't know their dead

 

[FURMAN]

Myself and my hunting buddies are near 150(maybe more) dead animals shot with Bergers(not only 180s) and have cleaned/cleared zero tips. While some of you may have had issues I would tell you the fact that you have issues and I don't tells you something. The odds it is directly related to the tips are not good. Again I have shot quite a few already with the pointed tip bullets. I can almost guarantee they are not "opening" like you think a bullet should open yet they drop animals like lightning. Clean your tips if it makes you feel better. I personally believe the Bergers with more vacant space in front of the lead perform better and are better at shedding the jacket. This becomes even more true as the impact velocity reaches 1800fps. It is possible it is a combination of the clogged tip and the small vacant area.

 

[cakes]

I'll chime in with my opinion as I go thru approximately 1500 Berger Hybrids [target] each year. I've noticed there is a definite following for people using this Hybrid for larger animals like elk. Some just love them and others have terrible results, usually pass thru's with minimal expansion. Have not seen that type of closed meplat in 15 years of using them. That being said, contact Berger and they'll take care of your concerns. Elk are funky animals, one can make a perfectly placed shot and they'll just look at you. Other times they take couple of steps and finished. I've been tempted to try those 180's on elk as it's a wonderfully accurate bullet but just don't want to risk losing an animal. I'll keep using the Accubond in my 284 and 7saum. Goodluck, Eric in DL

 

[Mike Matteson]

Where was the hit? What did the wound cavity look like? The tip being clogged statements are completely unfounded. We have killed quite a few animals now with the Berger pointed bullets(LRHT) and they perform at least as good as the open tipped bullets. I also have never cleared a Berger tip and have lost zero game with a well placed bullet.

Well placed bullets works every time. It's the bad place ones you have to worry about. I don't think I would use a hollow point to hunt with for big game to start with. To me you are trying to use a target bullet for hunting. Or the manufacture isn't doing their job. With that I think I would go to a Hammer Hunter bullet. From what I have seen they work and are very effective. They may cost a little more, but maybe you get what you pay for. Sorry about being so hard, but just the same. Is it worth the time and energy to do that work or spend a little more and get a better bullets.

 

[Mike Matteson]

I'll chime in with my opinion as I go thru approximately 1500 Berger Hybrids [target] each year. I've noticed there is a definite following for people using this Hybrid for larger animals like elk. Some just love them and others have terrible results, usually pass thru's with minimal expansion. Have not seen that type of closed meplat in 15 years of using them. That being said, contact Berger and they'll take care of your concerns. Elk are funky animals, one can make a perfectly placed shot and they'll just look at you. Other times they take couple of steps and finished. I've been tempted to try those 180's on elk as it's a wonderfully accurate bullet but just don't want to risk losing an animal. I'll keep using the Accubond in my 284 and 7saum. Goodluck, Eric in DL

I had just responded, then saw your writting. I am a Nosler Accubond user myself. Never had a problem with them. Elk I nornally use either 165gr or 200gr two different rifle depending on caliber. I have driven bullets from one end to the other. A poorly place shot is the problem. I realize that a perfect shot doesn't happen every time, and I have some problem with that over the years. I have seen a heart shot animal run to far. I have had people tell me that they shot their elk 5 times in the heart and it ran off. The two elk I shot drop with a heart shot drop in their tracks. Both holes were withing a 1/2" of each other. One was standing and the other was running. It had been wounded, and I put in the finishing shot. I would call it lucky on the 2nd shot.
I'll will stay with Noslers. I use them in Africa too.

 

[jcann]

I didn't think the hollow point on these bullets were for expansion. I thought it was for a larger meplat and possibly greater bearing surface.

This article on match bullets may shed some light on the hollow point design.

An NRA Shooting Sports Journal | Why Are Hollow-Point Rifle Bullets More Accurate?

High Power Rifle shooters know that hollow-point bullets have dominated serious competition for decades. Some of the reasons hollow-point rifle bullets became overwhelmingly preferred on the firing line have been lost over the years, however. This article briefly explains why hollow points...

www.ssusa.org

 

[Varmint Hunter]

I stand corrected in that Berger does make a Hybrid Hunting 7MM bullet.
The original topic referred to referred to 180 grain bullets, so my posting should have been worded differently.
The basis of my stance of not using target bullets for taking game animals stands.

It might be interesting to note that Hornady did recommend the use of their A-Max match bullets for hunting thin skinned biggame. It was printed in their reloading manual several editions back.

For several years, all I used for hunting whitetails at long(ish) distance was a 7STW and the 162gr A-Max. Impacts on or off the shoulder resulted in very fast or immediate incapacitation.

Many of Berger's "hunting" bullets are the exact same bullet that they previously sold as "target" bullets. At one point they just put the "hunting" bullets in orange boxes instead of the yellow boxes that they used for their "target" bullets. At some point they dropped the orange boxes and started to put all of their bullets in the yellow boxes.

 

[RockyMtnUT]

I had just responded, then saw your writting. I am a Nosler Accubond user myself. Never had a problem with them. Elk I nornally use either 165gr or 200gr two different rifle depending on caliber. I have driven bullets from one end to the other. A poorly place shot is the problem. I realize that a perfect shot doesn't happen every time, and I have some problem with that over the years. I have seen a heart shot animal run to far. I have had people tell me that they shot their elk 5 times in the heart and it ran off. The two elk I shot drop with a heart shot drop in their tracks. Both holes were withing a 1/2" of each other. One was standing and the other was running. It had been wounded, and I put in the finishing shot. I would call it lucky on the 2nd shot.
I'll will stay with Noslers. I use them in Africa too.

So was my elk poorly place shots? Just trying to understand your statement

 

[cakes]

One has to also consider that Hybrid target bullets have a thicker jacket as compared to a hunting version. This is to inhibit it shedding its jacket as compared to a hunting bullet with a thinner jacket which improves expansion. Shoot any bullet long enough on larger critters and you'll eventually have a "***" on a perfect shot. I always seem to have my best results with bonded bullets on those larger critters. Eric in DL

 

[Hawryluk]

Good questions
I should have posted that originally

Shot was 635 yards
7saum
180 hybrid @ 3000fps
3 shots in a 3 inch placement behind the shoulder
All 3 shots had no perceived effect.
Watching through a spotting scope it wouldn't even flinch. I could watch the bullet swirl in and hit its mark. Each shot was 10-15 seconds each after the first one.
Shot and see the results.
All 3 never fazed him. Just stood there. Finally 4 shot was placed in the neck shoulder area and it dropped
While field dressing the bull I saw that all 3 boiler room shots had penciled through both lungs and exited with a wound approximately like the entrance

I had the same issue but from about 25yrds from a 7 rem mag then 200yrds shooting 168vld both shots penciled through both lungs after the second shot with no results my friend put it down with his 270. Again I don't wanna bash any brands but that one experience with two shots was enough for me to switch.

 

[BlazerBeam]

Hmm another thread discussing penciling hollow-point boat tails and featuring pictures of a bent, nonexpanded Berger…..
I don't know what to think

"Shot placement is king" and "the dead animal is all that matters" and "every bullet will eventually fail" are funny statements to me. Pondering on what is really being said by each of those statements may be worthwhile.

 

[jraulsten]

Hmm another thread discussing penciling hollow-point boat tails and featuring pictures of a bent, nonexpanded Berger…..
I don't know what to think

"Shot placement is king" and "the dead animal is all that matters" and "every bullet will eventually fail" are funny statements to me. Pondering on what is really being said by each of those statements may be worthwhile.

Yep, and here is one pulled from a Nilgai… Oh wait, that's not a Berger

 

[RockyMtnUT]

Blazer are you