7mag Magic!

[dogz]

It did well. We were shooting in a 5 moa left to right wind coming down the canyon. Even with that our customer, who had never shot that far in his life. held pretty close to moa. I think he had one or two shots that got away from him. I think he took 8 shots accross the canyon. The 3 shots I took to get it on the rock were pretty good. Other than the sighter, there wasn't a shot that wasn't moa of deer!

Love it, that's awesome. Do you have a can on the T3? Be sweet if Tikka would stick an 8 on their 7's

 

[Blackdirt Cowboy]

I need to make a correction to my post above. My memory is apparently slipping and I confused my velocity with another rifle. My 7 RUM velocity with the 146 hammer and N570 is 3650, NOT 3400. So, indeed, I see how this is possible. Sorry for any confusion.

 

[dogz]

The guys at Gordon's Reloading Tool have been doing some pressure testing with the Hammers. Initial testing sxs with various lead core bullets of similar weight, loaded to touching the lands show nearly the same initial start pressure. According to them this is unusual for a mono bullet. Once the bullet is fully engraved and heading down the barrel the pressure drops off faster than a typical cup and core. More testing to be done to try and figure out exactly how the Hammer Bullets relate to engraving pressure. I did run this load past them and the consensus is that it is stout but not alarming.

Good stuff, thx

 

[john k]

No worries. My first impression is like always with such thin barreled rifles. Skeptical! We have now had 3 in our hands and two are solid sub moa and the 3rd is a bit better than moa. Pretty darn good in my opinion. For an out of the box rifle, I recommend them. For production rifles I think Wby and Browning are leading the way right now. Wby comes with a better trigger.

There is no way to keep a thin barrel from heating up. They do cool down faster too! I have not noticed the Wby walking with heat like I have with others. I don't punish them much more than 3 shots with no more than aim time.

Thanks Steve, I appreciate your valued input.

 

[Longtine88]

Rocky that's the bullet as you know I shoot out of a 22" 7 saum at 3,300 fps. Building a 7 prc to use them in also suppressed short barrel. Kinda anxious about it. I think I can get the 3,500 in it.

 

[anwahs]

Tag

 

[Muddyboots]

I've said this many times but I can't wait for the day when we can all get reliable pressure testing equipment at a cost that's workable and yet the machines are honest and trust worthy.

Back in the day we couldn't get a decent range finder, once we got them all those 500 yard shots we were making were suddenly 285 yards and 330 etc. You get the point.

IMO, once we get the machines all the loads that we have that "show no pressure" will all of a sudden make our underwear very tight

Until then, we can only use guess and by gollie and what we're wanting to achieve.

I still think that watching how long the primer pockets stay tight and our manuals from companies like Hodgdon who actually pressure test their loads is the best we can do.

Other than that, Powder River let er buck as to what you're comfy on.

I'll close by using my good friends mantra of "pressure equals speed and speed equals pressure". There is no free lunch my friends.

IMO trusting anybody's load data assuming its pressure tested thus safe is recipe for failure as well unless you personally recognize pressure signs and evaluate your own pressure results on brass and rifle. Good example of perplexing load data for same bullet and same powder is Nosler .243 Win 55 BT with H380. They show MAX load at 47.5 gr using H380 @ 3951fps. Curiously, Hodgdon shows MAX load of 51.0 grains of H380 for same bullet. Hodgdon gets 4010 fps with 3.5 grains more powder to get only 59 more fps? Both using 24" barrels. Both reputable for their load data. Their load numbers do not compare in any reasonable way. According to Nosler you might be way over their load data and at risk if you use Hodgdon's data. So who is more reliable? Bullet manufacturer? Powder manufacturer? Don't they both pressure test? The difference in brass and primers is not going to be 3.5 grains with same powder and bullet. As a reloader, you must learn to read pressure no matter where you are in the load manual data tree.

There is a lot more conundrum data out there so assuming data is "pressure tested" so its safe doesn't float my boat at all.

 

[Longtine88]

IMO trusting anybody's load data assuming its pressure tested thus safe is recipe for failure as well unless you personally recognize pressure signs and evaluate your own pressure results on brass and rifle. Good example of perplexing load data for same bullet and same powder is Nosler .243 Win 55 BT with H380. They show MAX load at 47.5 gr using H380 @ 3951fps. Curiously, Hodgdon shows MAX load of 51.0 grains of H380 for same bullet. Hodgdon gets 4010 fps with 3.5 grains more powder to get only 59 more fps? Both using 24" barrels. Both reputable for their load data. Their load numbers do not compare in any reasonable way. According to Nosler you might be way over their load data and at risk if you use Hodgdon's data. So who is more reliable? Bullet manufacturer? Powder manufacturer? Don't they both pressure test? The difference in brass and primers is not going to be 3.5 grains with same powder and bullet. As a reloader, you must learn to read pressure no matter where you are in the load manual data tree.

There is a lot more conundrum data out there so assuming data is "pressure tested" so its safe doesn't float my boat at all.

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Good point muddy glad you brought that up. Sometimes we as shooters forget to consider other beginners are just starting and reading these post and that point can not be driven home enough.

 

[WYO300RUM]

IMO trusting anybody's load data assuming its pressure tested thus safe is recipe for failure as well unless you personally recognize pressure signs and evaluate your own pressure results on brass and rifle. Good example of perplexing load data for same bullet and same powder is Nosler .243 Win 55 BT with H380. They show MAX load at 47.5 gr using H380 @ 3951fps. Curiously, Hodgdon shows MAX load of 51.0 grains of H380 for same bullet. Hodgdon gets 4010 fps with 3.5 grains more powder to get only 59 more fps? Both using 24" barrels. Both reputable for their load data. Their load numbers do not compare in any reasonable way. According to Nosler you might be way over their load data and at risk if you use Hodgdon's data. So who is more reliable? Bullet manufacturer? Powder manufacturer? Don't they both pressure test? The difference in brass and primers is not going to be 3.5 grains with same powder and bullet. As a reloader, you must learn to read pressure no matter where you are in the load manual data tree.

There is a lot more conundrum data out there so assuming data is "pressure tested" so its safe doesn't float my boat at all.

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It used to drive me crazy when I was younger comparing a load in Speer, Sierra, Hornady, Hodgdon, Lyman, Nosler, etc.. They variance was crazy. Now I only use Nosler, Hornady and Hodgdon. Or LRH screenshots and files !

 

[archeratlrg]

We have had some reports from customers running the 143g Hammer Hunters in their 7 Rem Mags at some very high velocities with rl26. We have loaded a few and with rl23 we would get about 3400 fps on the top end. I have always felt like that was pretty dang fast! The reports that we have gotten were saying that they were getting north of 3500 fps! Well, we had a good customer contact us wanting to purchase a new rifle in 7 mag and have us do the load development for him. So we got him a new Wby Mark V Hunter and figured this would be a good time to test the rl26 and see just how crazy these reports are. We picked up some virgin ADG brass and headed to the range to work it up. I also brought a new in the box Tikka T3 for vel verification if needed. Got the Labradar and everything set up and we syphered out a start load to work up from. First shot on the cleaned new barrel registered 3480 fps! Not a single hint of pressure. Bolt cycled like butter. Brian says "That's it, we are there.". Well, let's keep feeding it and see where it show too much pressure. So we continued up a grain at a time until we got the faintest of ejector mark on the brass. Still cycles like butter. The came at 3639 fps! At this point I feel like we are robbing a bank or something! If it was my rifle I would have run it there. We were basically at 100% case fill and couldn't go any higher anyway. We decided to back it down a grain and load it at 3570 fps. By the way my ladder work was a bit over moa at 100y and the final load shot a 3 shot group a bit over an inch at 300y. When shot at 870y in a scketchy wind across the canyon holding 5moa of wind it still shot nicely at moa or better. So, I had the Tikka there, and decided to shoot the same load in it to see if we just had a freaky fast barrel or what. Pulled it out of the packing and just shot it with no scope or anything to see the vel. Didn't even clean it. Shot one shot and it was 80fps slower with the 2" shorter barrel and cycled like butter. Hmmm...So it doesn't look like a fluke now. We are seeing vel as fast as we ever get from a 28 Nosler, out of the old lowly 7mag!

Here is my assessment of this session. When we went from "other" brass to the ADG brass in the 300wm we gained about 150fps before we encountered the same pressure signs. Obviously there is more pressure there but the brass handles it. So, I think we have gained roughly the same going to the ADG brass here. Then I have to say we are getting an extra 100fps out of the rl26 compared to other powders. This powder just does things that on paper it shouldn't be able to do.

I was a bit shy about posting this but @elkaholic Rich Sherman encouraged me to post it up. Wanted me to let him know so he could watch the fireworks! Here you go Rich, pop some corn!

What kinds of loads were you using? I've run 72.5 gr of H4831sc in mine behind 140gr accubonds for 3420fps out of a 24" Stainless Remington barrel.

 

[archeratlrg]

IMO trusting anybody's load data assuming its pressure tested thus safe is recipe for failure as well unless you personally recognize pressure signs and evaluate your own pressure results on brass and rifle. Good example of perplexing load data for same bullet and same powder is Nosler .243 Win 55 BT with H380. They show MAX load at 47.5 gr using H380 @ 3951fps. Curiously, Hodgdon shows MAX load of 51.0 grains of H380 for same bullet. Hodgdon gets 4010 fps with 3.5 grains more powder to get only 59 more fps? Both using 24" barrels. Both reputable for their load data. Their load numbers do not compare in any reasonable way. According to Nosler you might be way over their load data and at risk if you use Hodgdon's data. So who is more reliable? Bullet manufacturer? Powder manufacturer? Don't they both pressure test? The difference in brass and primers is not going to be 3.5 grains with same powder and bullet. As a reloader, you must learn to read pressure no matter where you are in the load manual data tree.

There is a lot more conundrum data out there so assuming data is "pressure tested" so its safe doesn't float my boat at all.

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All of Nosler load eating is done around 4500-5000ft elevation. That makes a difference.

 

[JiggyIi]

Ok, for you guys that want to give this load a go. I'll give a start load to work up from that is nice and mild. We started at 71g. I want to back that down to 68g just to take any possible issues out of it. I like to start nice and mild to feel the rifle as the ladder works up. Here is our data.

143g Hammer Hunter
ADG bright brass full length sized and chamfered
WLRM primer
COAL=3.380"
rl-26 start at 68g

Let's see how you all do!

Lol we can't, RL26 Or any other Alliant powder is more scare than a winning lottery ticket

 

[Reemty J]

Could RL 25 work for that load in the absence of RL 26?

 

[Longtine88]

If I don't have RL 26 for a load I use N560