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7 rem mag or 280 ack?

LOL! I have heard that improving a 280 Rem (60,000 PSI) to .280 AI will increase pressure to 65,000 PSI. That's why I went with improving .270 Win (65,000 PSI) instead; if the same concept/principle applies, a .270 AI should be 70,000 PSI. 🤣
Pressure specs are just that. "Specs". If you load up to pressure signs, you're over spec for most cartridges. 65ksi will show pressure signs with a lot of primers and brands of brass, but not all. 60ksi might show signs with Remington or Norma brass and Winchester primers.

The 280AI is a SAAMI specified cartridge. So is the 280 Remington. The specs chosen had reasons behind them, but no, improving the 280Rem didn't raise anything's capability of handling pressure. The shape of the case didn't have anything to do with the specified pressure.

What makes you think that dropping from .284" to .277" would allow you to go to 70ksi?
 
Pressure specs are just that. "Specs". If you load up to pressure signs, you're over spec for most cartridges. 65ksi will show pressure signs with a lot of primers and brands of brass, but not all. 60ksi might show signs with Remington or Norma brass and Winchester primers.

The 280AI is a SAAMI specified cartridge. So is the 280 Remington. The specs chosen had reasons behind them, but no, improving the 280Rem didn't raise anything's capability of handling pressure. The shape of the case didn't have anything to do with the specified pressure.
That's why I clearly noted "as an FYI only—for what it is worth" and only quoted the parent case, .280 Rem, not the improved.
X6!

ADDED as an FYI only - for what it is worth.

Maximum SAAMI pressure - 7MM RM = 62,366 PSI, .280 RM = 60, 000 PSI.
The increase in pressure from 60,000 PSI to 65,000 PSI was not my claim, but ...
280 AI is saami at 65,000psi
What makes you think that dropping from .284" to .277" would allow you to go to 70ksi?
I do not, and that's why I clearly noted "if the same concept/principle applies, a .270 AI should be 70,000 PSI" with a smiley face.
LOL! I have heard that improving a 280 Rem (60,000 PSI) to .280 AI will increase pressure to 65,000 PSI. That's why I went with improving .270 Win (65,000 PSI) instead; if the same concept/principle applies, a .270 AI should be 70,000 PSI. 🤣
 
That's why I clearly noted "as an FYI only—for what it is worth" and only quoted the parent case, .280 Rem, not the improved.

The increase in pressure from 60,000 PSI to 65,000 PSI was not my claim, but ...


I do not, and that's why I clearly noted "if the same concept/principle applies, a .270 AI should be 70,000 PSI" with a smiley face.

I may be confused, but from your posts, my understanding is that you think the 280AI being referred to is a wildcat, and that's why you quoted the 280Rem pressure specification. If that's not what you mean, then I apologize. The 280AI being referred to is not a wildcat. It is a standardized cartridge that was spec'd by Nosler and recognized by SAAMI. It is not what you would get if you Ackley improved a 280 Rem. An Ackley Improved 280Rem is the wildcat that people once referred to as a "280AI", but it is not what was being discussed. The pressure specified by Nosler, and published in SAAMI is 65ksi. This pressure specification has absolutely nothing to do with the shape of the case. It is a pressure than rifle manufactures need to know that factory ammo could produce. That way rifle designers can make wise choices about what rifles they chamber for a 280AI. Most, if not all, modern bolt action rifles will handle well in access of 65ksi. Most of your ammunition related mishaps aren't because the action couldn't take it, they're usually because the brass couldn't take it. The brass case is the seal, and when it goes, bad things happen and pressure goes places that it was never intended to go, including your face. This is why the 7mm Back Country doesn't require special rifle designs when bolt actions are concerned. Most of the actions out there are already plenty strong. AR's, other semi-autos, lever actions, actions with small diameters, and actions with very limited recoil lug surface, will all need closer inspection by engineers than most of our common bolt actions will. Many of our cartridges with pressure specifications below 65ksi, and particularly those below 60ksi, were spec'd with lower pressure because they were intended for use in a certain rifle that wasn't suited to high pressure. If you have a rifle that a manufacture chambers for 280AI, then you could load any case with that head diameter from a 243Win, to a 7x57, to a 30-06 Springfield up to 65ksi with zero problems at all. You would experience increased performance, and nothing else. But the ammunition manufacturers cannot do this, because they don't know what rifle you're loading it in. You could shoot a 284Win in a Remington 700 loaded to 65ksi with no problem, but if you loaded it in your Winchester lever action, you'd be asking for serious trouble.

^^^All this to say that the 280AI truly has a SAAMI pressure spec of 65ksi, but it has nothing to do with with modifications to the case that Nosler made. So when you say "if the same principle/concept applies then a 270 AI should be 70,000psi" I really have no idea what principle you're referring to. Maybe I missed the post where such a principle was suggested. No such principle exists, but the 280AI is in fact a 65ksi cartridge. That is important to rifle manufacturers, ammunition manufacturers, and people making reloading manuals. To someone who is going to load all the up to pressure signs, it really doesn't matter too much. That person doesn't know what pressure they're at, but it's likely between 65ksi and 70ksi regardless of cartridge.

On a slightly side note, the first place our brass tends to go is the primer pocket. This does give some cartridges the ability to be loaded slightly hotter than others. Magnum case heads will take slightly more pressure before the primer pocket leaks or gets loose, and so do standard case heads with small primer pockets.
 
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I may be confused, but from your posts, my understanding is that you think the 280AI being referred to is a wildcat, and that's why you quoted the 280Rem pressure specification. If that's not what you mean, then I apologize. The 280AI being referred to is not a wildcat. It is a standardized cartridge that was spec'd by Nosler and recognized by SAAMI. It is not what you would get if you Ackley improved a 280 Rem. An Ackley Improved 280Rem is the wildcat that people once referred to as a "280AI", but it is not what was being discussed. The pressure specified by Nosler, and published in SAAMI is 65ksi. This pressure specification has absolutely nothing to do with the shape of the case. It is a pressure than rifle manufactures need to know that factory ammo could produce. That way rifle designers can make wise choices about what rifles they chamber for a 280AI. Most, if not all, modern bolt action rifles will handle well in access of 65ksi. Most of your ammunition related mishaps aren't because the action couldn't take it, they're usually because the brass couldn't take it. The brass case is the seal, and when it goes, bad things happen and pressure goes places that it was never intended to go, including your face. This is why the 7mm Back Country doesn't require special rifle designs when bolt actions are concerned. Most of the actions out there are already plenty strong. AR's, other semi-autos, lever actions, actions with small diameters, and actions with very limited recoil lug surface, will all need closer inspection by engineers than most of our common bolt actions will. Many of our cartridges with pressure specifications below 65ksi, and particularly those below 60ksi, were spec'd with lower pressure because they were intended for use in a certain rifle that wasn't suited to high pressure. If you have a rifle that a manufacture chambers for 280AI, then you could load any case with that head diameter from a 243Win, to a 7x57, to a 30-06 Springfield up to 65ksi with zero problems at all. You would experience increased performance, and nothing else. But the ammunition manufacturers cannot do this, because they don't know what rifle you're loading it in. You could shoot a 284Win in a Remington 700 loaded to 65ksi with no problem, but if you loaded it in your Winchester lever action, you'd be asking for serious trouble.

^^^All this to say that the 280AI truly has a SAAMI pressure spec of 65ksi, but it has nothing to do with with modifications to the case that Nosler made. So when you say "if the same principle/concept applies then a 270 AI should be 70,000psi" I really have no idea what principle you're referring to. Maybe I missed the post where such a principle was suggested. No such principle exists, but the 280AI is in fact a 65ksi cartridge. That is important to rifle manufacturers, ammunition manufacturers, and people making reloading manuals. To someone who is going to load all the up to pressure signs, it really doesn't matter too much. That person doesn't know what pressure they're at, but it's likely between 65ksi and 70ksi regardless of cartridge.

On a slightly side note, the first place our brass tends to go is the primer pocket. This does give some cartridges the ability to be loaded slightly hotter than others. Magnum case heads will take slightly more pressure before the primer pocket leaks or gets loose, and so do standard case heads with small primer pockets.
My point is simple, I operate to the pressure parameter of the parent case as designed regardless of what improvement I make to the cartridge. Below is my .338 Thor next to .338 Norma.

1737568536437.png


I do the same with my other wildcats.
 
Yes when you load hot your primer pockets do expand. The AI case generally will hold more powder for us that workup loads that are over max loading in the handbooks. The manual have to stay below and in a safe load for any rifle. There is several Mauser action that wouldn't stand high pressure. I have two. A 6.5 x 55 in 96 action and a 8mm in M-95 action.
I read all the time about people here having problems with there reloads or hand loads and over pressuring the case. Not understanding how to read a fired case for signs of being over pressured. Or how to arrived or work up a load for that rifle with it's component. Not understanding between single and double based powders. How that reacts to temp changes. Especaily over reloading manual loads. How it effect the POI at longer ranges.
Now back to ranges for shooting animals! There is people that can do the long range shooting, and other that never will be able too. That's life. I hold my large game animal shots to about 500yds. I am not setup to go any farther than that presently. I am saying that longer shot can be made all the time. You need to know that rifle and what it does.
I was in Cabela's store not to long ago. I heard a couple of young fellows talking about one getting a scope and going to shoot long distrances. Yep you can just dial that elevation in and shoot dead on. I am reasonable sure they didn't load there own cases. and didn't have a clue of whats going to happen. 🙃
Now the ID is going to figure out what range we are going to shoot. 😂🤣🥲😇. Good luck being around when that's going to take places.
 
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