6.8 Western

[Calvin45]

So, how about how poor the timing is that they 277 sig fury and the 6.8 western are launched right on top of each other, and both of them fill a hole that didn't really exist. I think some of you nailed it, they are just praying to be the next 6.5cm. They are hoping for the equivalent of "going viral" in today's nonsensical world of cartridge marketing. The 6.5 caliber is exhausted for mass marketing, so they had to move on to thr next probable diameter opportunity.

Next year 4 companies will make .25 cartridges with awesome marketing names, and that is the culture we have now..

I'm just surprised no one's done anything truly new and offered a legit new bore diameter cartridge. The .23 and .29 seem glaringly obvious (and pointless but pretty much every cartridge in the last 30 years has been unnecessary - an improvement upon what exists perhaps but not doing anything that couldn't already be done).

 

[Deleted member 115360]

I think they are on the fringes of mainstream production for hunting. If you consider that 90% of the rifles sold in America are less than $800, and sold to shoot at whitetail deer from tree stands, they won't be able to move many people there. They have tried several times to make Americans like the 8mm stuff, and even called it .325 to appeal to our love of all things not metric, but it hasn't really worked. I think .30 is as big as the average American ungulate hunter will reliably buy, and .24 is about as small, so they are trying to create a firestorm in the middle. The success of the 6.5cm will haunt us for decades. It has become a modern day gold rush.

 

[Deleted member 115360]

I always like to revert back to the 30-06. Now, I'm not that old, but I cannot shake it. I am primarily a whitetail hunter, although I do hunt bears and am hunting in the west. I have almost all of the Weatherby cartridges covered in my gun safe, I've got 3 different 6.5 cartridges, wait, no...4, and I think they are spectacular for whitetail deer. In fact, I think the 6.5cm is as good as a cartridge will ever be for our medium sized southern whitetail, and serves well in timber stands as well as bean fields and creek bottoms, and kills deer dead when you hit them correctly, but no matter how many rifles I own, I grab my 30/06 more than anything else. That is probably the oldest big game cartridge I own, and I'm not even shooting AI. It just works. It kills deer like magic. It is a no fuss option that you never have to think about. It is remarkable to me how much they got right with it, well over 100 years ago, and then Roy Weatherby showed up 30 years later and made cartridges in his basement before color television that the best rocket engineers are still chasing today. Cartridge innovation has not gone through an actual major innovation since Roy Weatherby.

 

[Calvin45]

I think they are on the fringes of mainstream production for hunting. If you consider that 90% of the rifles sold in America are less than $800, and sold to shoot at whitetail deer from tree stands, they won't be able to move many people there. They have tried several times to make Americans like the 8mm stuff, and even called it .325 to appeal to our love of all things not metric, but it hasn't really worked. I think .30 is as big as the average American ungulate hunter will reliably buy, and .24 is about as small, so they are trying to create a firestorm in the middle. The success of the 6.5cm will haunt us for decades. It has become a modern day gold rush.

Funny thing on this site...everyone hating on the 6.5 creedmoor as a hipster cartridge are actually acting just like a bunch of hipsters in that they hate it simply because it's popular, it's mainstream, everyone seems to like it. Either that or all claiming they liked it "before it was cool" haha. I have no plans to buy a 6.5 as I already own a 270 and they serve similar purposes.

also funny note you mention about trying to get Americans to love metric...I'm Canadian and it's kind of funny, I live in a rural part of Saskatchewan (which is a rural province overall) and the dirt roads are indeed on a grid that is in miles, not kilometres, established long before we officially adopted the metric system. The highway signs are all in km. The stupid thing is that when I'm driving in gravel my brain automatically only thinks of distance in miles and when I'm on pavement it only thinks in kilometres. It's ridiculous but it works for me. Some simpsons humour to close this rabbit trail:

 

[kevin0270]

I like it and think it's a step in the right direction.I know it's not needed and the 270 win,270wsm and the 270 weatherby can do anything it can do with the correct twist barrel but I like it.I think buying a factory rifle that can shoot any .277 bullet available is great.I will be buying one and reloading the Berger 170 eol bullets and see what happens.We just need some great brass to go with it!!!

 

[lilharcher]

It has negative appeal to me and I am usually intrigued by new calibers......but not this one. Loving my new 7 Sherman Max though......

 

[ZAK13]

when gun companies make guns they do so to saami specs. to avoid lawsuits and barrel twist is set when certified. they cant just change saami spec. to suit their needs, so the 270 win,wsm,wea are what they are for twist.
the 6.8 western solves that problem and is also a true short action now to play on the popularity of the creed and prc nowadays
I see a lot of benefit for the 270 crowd and wildcatters.
remember guns/cartridges are designed for the masses not the handful that are willing to go custom or modify existing guns
for the guy that just wants to buy a gun and shoot to mid/longer ranges this is a viable solution

I would have to agree with you .

 

[gregsjt]

You guys always miss the point on these new cartridges, the goal isn't to improve on what's already out there in terms of velocity, the goal is to sell ammo and guns. @can1010 got close above, the large gun manufactures are limited by saami as well as the large ammo manufactures. They can't just start producing 270 win ammo with 170 grain bullets because there are already millions of rifles out with twists that won't stabilize those bullets. So they have to start over with a new round that has modern saami specs, now they can produce ammo with high bc bullets that will work in every 6.8 Western gun that gets built.

We should be thanking them for giving us options, it's pretty nice to be able to buy over the counter ammo and rifles that can hit stuff over 1000 yards away. That wasn't really possible a few years ago. If you already have a custom 270 WSM with a fast twist barrel that you reload for, good for you. But if your neighbor wants to get into shooting or long range hunting, would you want him to spend thousands on a custom gun and reloading gear or go buy a 6.8 Western or 6.5 PRC of the shelf with factory ammo and just start shooting?

 

[Deleted member 115360]

I don't know how many years you're talking about, but people have been launching .308 win rainbows at 1,000y targets in competitions for much longer than I've been alive. I don't think 1,000y capable factory ammo is new by a long shot.

Now, 1,000y capable shooters? Those weren't easy to find. Far more hunters have embraced the idea of long range hunting than ever before, and trained those skills to varying degrees, but the shelf ready cartridges have been there for decades.

 

[can1010]

if the factory ammo is as good as the 6.5 creed and prc at long range this will be a giant step forward for 270 fans

 

[can1010]

I don't know how many years you're talking about, but people have been launching .308 win rainbows at 1,000y targets in competitions for much longer than I've been alive. I don't think 1,000y capable factory ammo is new by a long shot.

Now, 1,000y capable shooters? Those weren't easy to find. Far more hunters have embraced the idea of long range hunting than ever before, and trained those skills to varying degrees, but the shelf ready cartridges have been there for decades.

so according to your comments on this tread we should be still throwing rocks instead of pointed sticks because of the rainbow trajectory or metric system

 

[gregsjt]

It's true that you could launch any bullet at 1000 yard targets but the .308 with 150 or 168 grain bullets wasn't ideal at all. Sure, handloaders could load better bc bullets but the same problem existed, most .308 rifles had 1-11.25 barrels and you couldn't shoot bullets heavier that 175 or so. I'd argue that the Creedmoor was the cartridge that changed the game, it was the first commercially loaded round with super high bc bullets that also had rifles chambered with twist rates that could handle the high bc bullets. Someone said it above, after 10 years or whatever it's been, if it didn't work it wouldn't still be so popular.

 

[Deleted member 115360]

so according to your comments on this tread we should be still throwing rocks instead of pointed sticks because of the rainbow trajectory or metric system

No, but my point is that actual innovation was a rocket from the 1850's to 1950's, and since then, all we've done is spend $Billions to squeeze single digit% performance out of the stuff that is older than any of us. I get caught up in this stuff just like anyone else, and then sometimes when I compare downrange m.v. and energy of the thousands of cartridges available to us, I acknowledge how much mental masturbation it all is. When almost every modern cartridge is pushing 1,500+ fps at 500y+, and 90%+ of animals are taken inside of 100y, where you could have killed them with a decent crossbow, it can all be much ado about nothing. There is no way to quantify or prove this, but I'd be willing to bet that frontal diameter is almost never the factor as to whether or not a game animal dies, (accepting huge swings, like, don't shoot an elephant with a .223). If you were able to put a fatal shot into the vitals of a deer with your 7rm, for example, and you were magically able to repeat the same shot under the same conditions with a 6.5cm, or a 243, or a 300wm, or just about anything in these middle of the road calibers, the result would be the same. You could shoot an animal with this 6.8 western, or a 6.5 prc, or a century plus old .270, and nothing will change at all. Now, I'm guilty of buying every new thing that comes out just like many of you, but I am honest about the lack of real difference. Now excuse me while I go back to building my 6mm arc ar, because I definitely needed a 3rd 6mm cartridge that performs worse than the .243 and .240 Weatherby I already own, but fits in an ar, and when compared to the 6.5 grendel ar I already own, it ummm, does something better, maybe.

 

[Deleted member 115360]

Roy Weatherby invented the 6.5x300wby in the 1950's, and did a soft launch, but nobody wanted it then. I can't remember what they called it then, but the post ww2 aversion to anything metric just killed it. Now, it is the fastest 6.5 cartridge on the commercial market. The 28 nosler is within about 2% of the 7mm stw with significantly more powder and recoil, and a significantly shorter barrel life. They knew when they made the 7mmstw that they could add more powder and eek out just a tiny bit more velocity, but it would have come at the expense of recoil and barrel life for nominal returns. Wildcatters have been making fast twist barrels and shooting heavy for caliber bullets for at least 70 years, so it isn't a new concept. We just keep revamping old ideas. The 6.5 prc has existed in the form of a necked down 300saum for a decade anyways. People necked down the 300wsm to 6.5, 7mm, even .25, about 10 minutes after the wsm cartridges hit the shelf. I don't know what the next actual innovation will be, but they have historically come from wildcatters improving a decent design to something spectacular, and the industry just piggybacks