6-700yd Mountain deer gun opinions?

[jdawson]

Honestly, Drop the 300wsm, go with a custom built 30-06 with a match grade barrel no less then 24" i would recommend 25" if weight is a concern, get it fluted and put a choate tactical stock, its aluminum bedded and light. and only costs 250 or so, if ur military its cheaper. Looks alot like a mcmillian A5 stock, also get the kierstin cheek piece, 50-70 bucks, depending where u get it.. now, why 30-06.. simply because a 300wsm will always kick harder and have more pressure issues then a 30-06 ever will, even when loaded hot. the brass is cheaper as well. at least where i live. and, its more common, so the odds of u getting free brass is higher. anyway not important. Im all about recoil management, and i shoot 208 amax's out to 1200yds at 7 inch tgts with a mv of abt 2440fps. they shoot extremely flat and are a better bullet then any BTHP Match. Dont get cought up into MV. when i load 178 amax at 2650 fps my dope for 1000yds is 11.3 mils with the 208 its 10.4mils thats a mil difference from a bullet 30 grains heavier and 200fps slower! MV has nothing to do with performance, well, it does a little, but bullet selection and weight do. a 30-06 will push this bullet with no problems, its flatter, and the recoil is smooth. it better then a 308, and is more manageable in size, weight, recoil, pressure and capabilities then a 300 win mag. its right in the middle. In my opinion mag rifles are a waist of money. They are a delight for ppl who want fast Bullets, but MV is NOT the issue with long range precision. If you want a better MT Gun, maybe get the sps tactical in 308 and load it with 190 grains. the barrel is a mid bbl, 20" and a short action for quicker bolt manipulation. and, you can push it fast enough, flat enough etc as with a 300wsm and still..without recoil or pressure issues. gun)

 

[branwill25]

Hey Duckman what part of Idaho do you live in? I own a couple 260's that you are more than welcome to shoot if you want. I live in Blackfoot which is southeast Idaho. I have a custom rifle that I can shoot rockchucks at the distances you are wanting so a deer would be easy. Let me know.

 

[Scot E]

Honestly, Drop the 300wsm, go with a custom built 30-06 with a match grade barrel no less then 24" i would recommend 25" if weight is a concern, get it fluted and put a choate tactical stock, its aluminum bedded and light. and only costs 250 or so, if ur military its cheaper. Looks alot like a mcmillian A5 stock, also get the kierstin cheek piece, 50-70 bucks, depending where u get it.. now, why 30-06.. simply because a 300wsm will always kick harder and have more pressure issues then a 30-06 ever will, even when loaded hot. the brass is cheaper as well. at least where i live. and, its more common, so the odds of u getting free brass is higher. anyway not important. Im all about recoil management, and i shoot 208 amax's out to 1200yds at 7 inch tgts with a mv of abt 2440fps. they shoot extremely flat and are a better bullet then any BTHP Match. Dont get cought up into MV. when i load 178 amax at 2650 fps my dope for 1000yds is 11.3 mils with the 208 its 10.4mils thats a mil difference from a bullet 30 grains heavier and 200fps slower! MV has nothing to do with performance, well, it does a little, but bullet selection and weight do. a 30-06 will push this bullet with no problems, its flatter, and the recoil is smooth. it better then a 308, and is more manageable in size, weight, recoil, pressure and capabilities then a 300 win mag. its right in the middle. In my opinion mag rifles are a waist of money. They are a delight for ppl who want fast Bullets, but MV is NOT the issue with long range precision. If you want a better MT Gun, maybe get the sps tactical in 308 and load it with 190 grains. the barrel is a mid bbl, 20" and a short action for quicker bolt manipulation. and, you can push it fast enough, flat enough etc as with a 300wsm and still..without recoil or pressure issues. gun)

I am a big fan of not overdoing it with magnum cartridges that aren't needed. Recoil is a much bigger issues when it comes to accuracy than most guys realize. But velocity IS a big deal. Using your example, the difference in the 208 Amax at 2440 fps vs 2900 fps (Win Mag velocities) is 3.3 Mils of holdover or 117 inches less drift at 1000 yards for the faster bullet. The faster bullet would also drift 16.2 inches less. Even at 600 yards there is 29 inches less drop and 11.5 inches less drift. A big deal which minimizes a lot of potential mistakes and errors.

The other big benefit of speed when shooting the LR game is that it allows you to stay in the proper velocity window so you ensure your bullet properly expands. For many bullets this is around 1800 fps which the slower speed bullet drops below at about 550 yards. Of course the A-max helps with this because it will expand at far lower velocities than most other bullets but the point is valid for many shooters none the less.

Also, I shoot 168 grain A-Maxs at about 2850 and am only 8.7 Mils at 1000 yards. Are you sure those numbers are correct? I ran numbers for the 178 A-max at 2650 and came up with about 10 MILS.

Scot E.

 

[barefootserpent]

Have you considered a 280 rem or better the Improved? You would carry a lot less metal and still have 7 mag velocities . Recoil is same as an 0'6 with same bullet weight. That's a big plus after climbing a moutain only to kicked by an ultra lite, high power gun. Bullet selection is awesome and think of all the powder you will save. Check it out.

 

[TannerGun]

A Kimber Montana in anything from 243 up will take any deer alive at 6-700 yds, this just isn't that difficult. A Choate Tac stock and 208 AMAXes for a Mtn rig, really? That's funny.

 

[vacabill]

I shoot long range quiet often. I prefer a 7mm because it doesn't have a big recoil and has enough downrange energy to be effective. I presently shoot a 7mm ultra mag because of the increased energy but that is not for everyone. The problem with the lighter cals is they are not very forgiving, if you make a bad shot you more than likely will not get the animal. Also the compensation for a 600-700 yd shot is 6-7 feet as well as wind considerations.

 

[Dalebow]

Could you post pics of your 280 and contact info for randy

 

[vacabill]

This is in regards to a 243 or 6.5 at 600-700 yds. I don't have the charts for those ranges but at 500 yds a 243 only has 800 ft lbs and a 260 or 6.5 only has 900 ft lbs as compared to a 7mm at 1600 ft lbs. That is twice as much. On a bad shot that is the difference whether you get him or not, however nothing beats shot placement with any caliber.

 

[Dalebow]

That is huge difference in power

 

[JimBoIHN]

If your 300wsm is accurate why change it?
Put a brake on it if recoil is a concern, or try a mercury recoil reducer if you dont want a brake.
With the current offerings of bullets, the 30 trumps the 7 in every single catagory Including better B.C. bullets, & when you take momentum into account it really trumps the 7. The only place a 7 wins is in the recoil department, but imo, a good muzzle brake makes that a non issue.
Now I'm perfectly aware you dont need all that energy for deer. I'm also aware that a 6.5 or a 270 or a 7 has plenty of medicine for a deer, & if you choose that route that's all well & good. but don't buy into that "7 has better B.C." b.s.
Run the numbers on JBM if you want to see them for yourself.
If you don't care for brakes, & its strictly a trade off of recoil but still wanting to keep high BC bullets your on the right track. Just don't sell your current cartrige short.

Exactly what I was thinking. If you're looking for green grass...........just look down!

 

[hypersonic]

I am a big fan of not overdoing it with magnum cartridges that aren't needed. Recoil is a much bigger issues when it comes to accuracy than most guys realize. But velocity IS a big deal. Using your example, the difference in the 208 Amax at 2440 fps vs 2900 fps (Win Mag velocities) is 3.3 Mils of holdover or 117 inches less drift at 1000 yards for the faster bullet. The faster bullet would also drift 16.2 inches less. Even at 600 yards there is 29 inches less drop and 11.5 inches less drift. A big deal which minimizes a lot of potential mistakes and errors.

The other big benefit of speed when shooting the LR game is that it allows you to stay in the proper velocity window so you ensure your bullet properly expands. For many bullets this is around 1800 fps which the slower speed bullet drops below at about 550 yards. Of course the A-max helps with this because it will expand at far lower velocities than most other bullets but the point is valid for many shooters none the less.

Also, I shoot 168 grain A-Maxs at about 2850 and am only 8.7 Mils at 1000 yards. Are you sure those numbers are correct? I ran numbers for the 178 A-max at 2650 and came up with about 10 MILS.

Scot E.

Ditto on what you have posted, I like the 06 great cartridge but my 300 Win is so far ahead it is not funny. And that is in an apples to apples comparison over the same distances with the same bullet. A safe increase in 400 fps between the two with the exact same bullet shot in the same conditions. I do not find the 300 bad at all with 200 grain AB's but I do shoot an unbraked 338 ultra also so I guess I am getting a bit less recoil sensative as the years pass. Yes you can browse the numbers and the math a whole bunch but nothing beats trigger time off the bench.
Give me a 300 over a 06 then again give me a .338 over the 300 any day.

 

[Long Time Long Ranger]

For a 600-700 yard lazer where bullet drop would not be much of a factor and you could make easy kills to 600-700 yards a 26" barrel 6.5 STW is the best flat shooting mountain rifle I own. I am shooting the 129 Hornady SST 3700 fps out of mine with Retumbo. Once you get accustomed to these super lazers out to 600-700 yards it is hard to change. The ease of point and shoot philosify takes a lot of stress out of some hunting situations.

 

[Scot E]

For a 600-700 yard lazer where bullet drop would not be much of a factor and you could make easy kills to 600-700 yards a 26" barrel 6.5 STW is the best flat shooting mountain rifle I own. I am shooting the 129 Hornady SST 3700 fps out of mine with Retumbo. Once you get accustomed to these super lazers out to 600-700 yards it is hard to change. The ease of point and shoot philosify takes a lot of stress out of some hunting situations.

That is funny you mention the 6.5 STW. I was just playing with some numbers with the 140 gr A-Max and it is almost unbelievable how flat it will shoot. Almost twice as flat as many other popular LR hunting rounds! I would love to have one someday!

Scot E.

 

[270winshort]

These are all great options guys. I think I've decided that I won't be canabalizing the .300wsm. I am more interested in building a fun gun to put a lot of rounds thru and be a usefull long deer gun in the back country. A 6.5 will be a great back country predator gun, especially with wolves on the menu here in the gem state. Once again I appreciate all the info.

I think your on the wright track, but I would suggest going with the 6.5X47 for the reason which you state here "lots of rounds thru" the 6.5X284 is a great round but is not known for its barrel life (around 1000 to 1200) the 6.5X47 will go 4 times that (4000 to 4500)it will shoot the 130 bergers at 2950, the 123 amaxs at 3020 and even the 140 bergers at 2875 all with plenty of pounding power for a deer at 700 yrds, just a thought ,good luck

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