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6.5 sherman q&a

Beeman,
The Berger bullets had identical performance on deer and antelope from 250- 610 yards, pinhole going in, golfball coming out. I have a lot of confidence in these.
The Cauterucio bullets went 5 for 5 on deer and antelope at ranges of 150 - 350yards, very good in the wind but a little too aggressive at the shorter ranges for me.
The 160 Matrix (had planned on killing elk with it:cool:) only took 3 quite small whitetail from 20-450 yards. I have tested these more than any other bullet I have loaded in 43 years. They have surprised me at how tough a bullet they are shooting into water filled jugs at up to 1030 yards yet worked fine on a 20yd whitetail(dug what was left of the jacket out of the far side hide, total soup inside).
Bigngreen is building another 6.5Sherman for his youngest brother's graduation this spring and unless he changes his mind we will have 3 rifles shooting the 160 Matrix.(I guess that's saying in a roundabout way the Matrix is my favorite)
26" barrel
Cliff
 
I have not used the Cauterucio, so can't speak to them. I agree that the Bergers work quite well, but have reservations about using them in a 6.5 at ranges where you don't have 2100-2200' impact velocity. At that range, I believe the A-max is superior. I agree with Cliff as to the toughness of the Matrix. With that kind of sectional density, I would not be afraid to shoot elk, and even moose with this bullet. (even at high velocity)
I think when we talk about an "all around bullet", we have to know what the all around is? If I were choosing one with larger game like elk and moose in mind, it would definitely be the Matrix 160. I do want to do some more testing at long range with them before I make a firm decision on there expansion capabilities on game. I think it is a good idea to anneal the tips, as was described in an earlier thread, to promote easier expansion. With the toughness and sectional density of this bullet, I don't think there is a problem with TOO MUCH expansion at closer ranges. The Matrix will likely be my go to bullet as well.

I would also consider the 142 Matrix for some testing as well. So far, I have only used them on paper where they are very accurate! I would EXPECT that they would act much like the Berger on game, although they might be a bit tougher to expand because they aren't quite as aggressive on the ogive, but this is just speculation. Again, I would have to test them out. So much testing, so little time!.......Rich
 
elkaholic said:
I agree with Cliff as to the toughness of the Matrix. With that kind of sectional density, I would not be afraid to shoot elk, and even moose with this bullet. (even at high velocity)
Click to expand...

I am intrigued by this. Though I love my 6.5's, I consider them to be ideal antelope and deer cartridges. I have yet to hunt elk, but I would hesitate to use a 6.5 for elk if I had a better option (and I do). I know there are many people who hunt elk successfully with 6.5's and .270's. The thought of doing that just makes me uncomfortable.

Reports about the 160 matrix have me re-thinking that. It would seem that the Matrix bullet has the potential to elevate the 6.5's into 7mm Mag territory, which is about where I think my comfort zone would start for elk. I have been seriously considering having my 8 twist 6.5-284 re-chambered to .264WM. Though other factors initially started me thinking along those lines, the prospect of shooting the 160 Matrix over RL-33 may well seal the deal.
 
benchracer said:
I am intrigued by this. Though I love my 6.5's, I consider them to be ideal antelope and deer cartridges. I have yet to hunt elk, but I would hesitate to use a 6.5 for elk if I had a better option (and I do). I know there are many people who hunt elk successfully with 6.5's and .270's. The thought of doing that just makes me uncomfortable.

Reports about the 160 matrix have me re-thinking that. It would seem that the Matrix bullet has the potential to elevate the 6.5's into 7mm Mag territory, which is about where I think my comfort zone would start for elk. I have been seriously considering having my 8 twist 6.5-284 re-chambered to .264WM. Though other factors initially started me thinking along those lines, the prospect of shooting the 160 Matrix over RL-33 may well seal the deal.
Click to expand...

Benchracer......I understand why you have reservations about a 6.5 being on the light side, but with the right rifle and bullet combo, THEY ARE LETHAL! I have killed 25+ bulls with a 6.5 using mostly 140 Nosler partitions. Your comment about putting them in the 7 mag range with the 160 Matrix is right on. In fact, the secional density of a 160 coupled with 3100' of velocity, is pretty eye opening.........Rich
 
Here is another way of putting into perspective the capability of a 160 Matrix in the 6.5 Sherman or 6.5 SS with a .328 sectional density:
Below are equivalent bullet weights for the same SD:

.284=175 gr.
.308=220
.338=260

Now do some research and see which cartridge it takes to equal this.
Sure, the others have more energy at the same velocity but the Matrix/Sherman combo still has 1337 ft lbs at 1000 yards so even if you are one who believes it takes 1000 ft lbs to kill an elk, you can see why I think the 6.5 is lethal......Rich
 
reeldawg said:
Can yall explain the best way to fire form the case? Is it easier to load and shot or use a shotgun powder with a filler?


Jay
Click to expand...

Easiest is probably load and shoot. I personally like to use the COW method because I like to turn necks before I shoot a bullet. If you do load a bullet and shoot, be aware that the Sherman chamber is 2.525" long and sometimes the brass might be a little longer than that before you fireform. I have never had any trouble but it COULD raise pressure being over chamber length with a bullet trying to exit through the case mouth. The fire forming process usually shortens the case about .015" because you are increasing the capacity quite a bit. Hope this helps.......Rich
 
For those interested in the 6.5 Sherman, the 160 Matrix, and/or Reloader 33 I thought today's range results might be helpful.

I have been dipping into bigngreen's stash of R33 to see if it would be of any use in this cartridge with this bullet. My expectation was that this powder would be too slow to produce top velocities.

The first outing tested loads from 66Gr up to 70gr with a velocity of 3082 fps. I figured the 70gr to be the max as it is fairly compressed, though with no signs of excess pressure.


Second outing went back with the 69gr load to see what it did accuracy wise. It was not all that good, dismal actually, I didn't even bother to measure it. I wasn't going to pursue it any further and then I read where others found that R33 performs better with the bullet seated into the lands. My best groups with the 160gr bullet has been seated to .090" short. Hmmmm??? worth a try.

Third outing I dropped the charge to 68gr to offset the increase in pressure by seating into the lands.
Load: win 270 brass
Matrix 160 vld
58gr R33
f210 primer
3.530" COAL increased from 3.34" used on previous loads

Velocity went up to an average of 3110 with an e.s. of 20,group size shrank to .381"for 5 shots :)

I wouldn't recommend this load to any one as my barrel has a bit over 1300 rounds through it and the wear may allow for a somewhat softer start.

My conclusions from this are:
1) seating the bullet into the lands increases pressure and thus velocity significantly more than I had imagined. From 298fps-3.34" to 3110fps-3.530"
2)The 160 Matrix is quite tolerant to seating depth changes.
3)Reloader 33 is well suited to this cartridge with the heavy bullets
4)Reloader 33 does at least in this limited test do better with bullet seated into the lands

Cliff
 
CliffM said:
For those interested in the 6.5 Sherman, the 160 Matrix, and/or Reloader 33 I thought today's range results might be helpful.

I have been dipping into bigngreen's stash of R33 to see if it would be of any use in this cartridge with this bullet. My expectation was that this powder would be too slow to produce top velocities.

The first outing tested loads from 66Gr up to 70gr with a velocity of 3082 fps. I figured the 70gr to be the max as it is fairly compressed, though with no signs of excess pressure.


Second outing went back with the 69gr load to see what it did accuracy wise. It was not all that good, dismal actually, I didn't even bother to measure it. I wasn't going to pursue it any further and then I read where others found that R33 performs better with the bullet seated into the lands. My best groups with the 160gr bullet has been seated to .090" short. Hmmmm??? worth a try.

Third outing I dropped the charge to 68gr to offset the increase in pressure by seating into the lands.
Load: win 270 brass
Matrix 160 vld
58gr R33
f210 primer
3.530" COAL increased from 3.34" used on previous loads

Velocity went up to an average of 3110 with an e.s. of 20,group size shrank to .381"for 5 shots :)

I wouldn't recommend this load to any one as my barrel has a bit over 1300 rounds through it and the wear may allow for a somewhat softer start.

My conclusions from this are:
1) seating the bullet into the lands increases pressure and thus velocity significantly more than I had imagined. From 298fps-3.34" to 3110fps-3.530"
2)The 160 Matrix is quite tolerant to seating depth changes.
3)Reloader 33 is well suited to this cartridge with the heavy bullets
4)Reloader 33 does at least in this limited test do better with bullet seated into the lands

Cliff
Click to expand...

I am curious to see if those test results hold true as case capacity increases. I will keep your results in mind as I test RL-33 in my .264WM.
 
Good job Cliff! Very interesting and IMPRESSIVE result. I have some RL 33 that I am going to try when I get a chance. Your data will likely help me save a few bullets.
Benchracer.....I'm pretty sure you will see similar results in your WM too. My guess is you should top out around 3150-3175'.......rich
 

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