6.5 SAUM help please

[clownbuster]

Maybe you already covered this, but I'm curious why you stopped at 61.5 grains of H1000? Did you hit pressure at 61.5??
With .120 of freebore, you have some room to load the 140's out there (limited by mag length of course). Your best accuracy node could be (and likely is) at a higher velocity.
Finding your 'practical max' charge should always be your first stage and simply work backwards from that charge.
Of course, all of this IS AFTER you've put 150 down the tube...

 

[Rick Richard]

Maybe you already covered this, but I'm curious why you stopped at 61.5 grains of H1000? Did you hit pressure at 61.5??
With .120 of freebore, you have some room to load the 140's out there (limited by mag length of course). Your best accuracy node could be (and likely is) at a higher velocity.
Finding your 'practical max' charge should always be your first stage and simply work backwards from that charge.
Of course, all of this IS AFTER you've put 150 down the tube...

Agree with what your saying, but the Hornady brass in my experience will not take the pressure over 60.5 with H1000. If you are lucky to get ti to hold up at that load, then you will probably only get one firing out of the brass. Primer pockets will become way to loose.

 

[JD250]

Maybe you already covered this, but I'm curious why you stopped at 61.5 grains of H1000? Did you hit pressure at 61.5??
With .120 of freebore, you have some room to load the 140's out there (limited by mag length of course). Your best accuracy node could be (and likely is) at a higher velocity.
Finding your 'practical max' charge should always be your first stage and simply work backwards from that charge.
Of course, all of this IS AFTER you've put 150 down the tube...

I still have plenty of room in the mag box I've got a Wyatt's box in it I did not see any pressure signs at 61.5 I just stopped there because everything I read was that the sweet spot for most people shooting this caliber was between 60-60.5 and watching my groups that's where mine shot best once I got up to 61.5 my groups were growing substantially so I just stopped there. I haven't researched it yet but what is max load for that cartridge with h1000?

 

[B-P-UU]

how are you measuring to your lands?

looking for rifling marks on bullet isn't the most reliable.. if you are seeing lands/groove marks on the bullet, you're likely at a pretty heavy jam.

 

[JD250]

how are you measuring to your lands?

looking for rifling marks on bullet isn't the most reliable.. if you are seeing lands/groove marks on the bullet, you're likely at a pretty heavy jam.

I measured the chamber with the hornady oal tool and a micrometer mine measured out at 3.232... when I load a bullet and close the bolt it still feels the same as the ones i have loaded .020 and when I eject a loaded round there is no resistance at all I just see very faint marks on the bullet when I pull it out...

 

[clownbuster]

Agree with what your saying, but the Hornady brass in my experience will not take the pressure over 60.5 with H1000. If you are lucky to get it to hold up at that load, then you will probably only get one firing out of the brass. Primer pockets will become way to loose.

Then get better brass to hold up, or buy more of the Hornady to accomplish something, but don't limit a high-dollar rifle's potential and ability to shoot on $50 worth of brass. The op states in the beginning "this rifle should shoot very well given all the parts I used...", and then it didn't. And apparently his buddy's that was built at the same time with the same reamer by the same gunsmith didn't either. If Remington made factory 6.5 SAUMs, it would likely shoot better than this from factory ammo if it was available. So, if we give the gunsmith and the high-dollar precision rifle he built the benefit of the doubt, and the op is building his own ammo, what does he have left in his control that he cannot "out-shoot"?

Again, once the barrel has enough rounds down the tube to begin hard, meaningful micro-load development @ 100 yards like he's trying...
#1-shooter error (assuming he can before he shelled out a mint for a custom)#2-reloading tools/skill (assuming he had that covered before shelling out a mint for a custom that you pretty much have to reload for)
#3-components (enough quality brass, same lot primers/bullets/powder to last the barrel life of 2500+ firings or your intended time to own it)

Like a three-legged stool, knock one of them out, and the whole thing falls apart.

There has been an entire reloading room of relatively great advice being given him, but has the process really been approached with the above covered?
Is his buddy using the same reloading components off the same bench?
Based on all that has been disclosed, I know where I would start...

Sounds like time is getting critical to get this to shoot, so I would knock out one leg at a time...
-Order a small sample of ammo made by someone else TODAY:
http://coppercreekammo.com/product/65saum-143eldx/
Website says they have 5 boxes of 20 left made from Norma brass for $99. Order two boxes, 2-day Priority Mail to your door.
Before shooting, measure the base to ogive and write it down, measure the weight of all 40 rounds to get an average of total round weight and write it down, because IF it shoots awesome, you at least have some weights and measures to duplicate it.

Go shoot 10 at 100 yards without sighting the scope in; if it groups, awesome.

Zero the scope in using the remaining 10 (if available use some sort of shoot thru or shoot by chrono, like a Labradar), if not then}}} use a strap-on chrono for 5 shots for your dope. DONE. You now have 15 or 20 ELD-X hunting rounds that are not seating-depth sensitive to use for your hunt, and your ready to go.

If it shoots better, then you know that you're not the problem and your rifle is not the problem.

If it doesn't shoot better, you'll know its likely not a component issue (I've shot C4 ammo and it shoots great), shoot the rest of them and you'll have 40 total pieces of quality brass that's been neck-turned and is ready for your reloading expertise.

If I sound hard, I'm not, I'm just really focused in helping with what your title is asking for by the shortest (and hopefully and cheapest) measure, and not going in ten different directions based on little more than assumptions.

Feel free to call or email if you have any questions. I've been shooting this caliber successfully in two custom rifles.

S. Grasseth
360-513-1235
[email protected]

 

[JD250]

Then get better brass to hold up, or buy more of the Hornady to accomplish something, but don't limit a high-dollar rifle's potential and ability to shoot on $50 worth of brass. The op states in the beginning "this rifle should shoot very well given all the parts I used...", and then it didn't. And apparently his buddy's that was built at the same time with the same reamer by the same gunsmith didn't either. If Remington made factory 6.5 SAUMs, it would likely shoot better than this from factory ammo if it was available. So, if we give the gunsmith and the high-dollar precision rifle he built the benefit of the doubt, and the op is building his own ammo, what does he have left in his control that he cannot "out-shoot"?

Again, once the barrel has enough rounds down the tube to begin hard, meaningful micro-load development @ 100 yards like he's trying...
#1-shooter error (assuming he can before he shelled out a mint for a custom)#2-reloading tools/skill (assuming he had that covered before shelling out a mint for a custom that you pretty much have to reload for)
#3-components (enough quality brass, same lot primers/bullets/powder to last the barrel life of 2500+ firings)

Like a three-legged stool, knock one of them out, and the whole thing falls apart.

There has been an entire reloading room of relatively great advice being given him, but has the process really been approached with the above covered?
Is his buddy using the same reloading components off the same bench?
Based on all that has been disclosed, I know where I would start...

Sounds like time is getting critical to get this to shoot, so I would knock out one leg at a time...
-Order a small sample of ammo made by someone else TODAY:
http://coppercreekammo.com/product/65saum-143eldx/
Website says they have 5 boxes of 20 left made from Norma brass for $99. Order two boxes, 2-day Priority Mail to your door.
Before shooting, measure the base to ogive and write it down, measure the weight of all 40 rounds to get an average of total round weight and write it down, because IF it shoots awesome, you at least have some weights and measures to duplicate it.

Go shoot 10 at 100 yards without sighting the scope in; if it groups, awesome.

Zero the scope in using the remaining 10 (if available use some sort of shoot thru or shoot by chrono, like a Labradar), if not then}}} use a strap-on chrono for 5 shots for your dope. DONE. You now have 15 or 20 ELD-X hunting rounds that are not seating-depth sensitive to use for your hunt, and your ready to go.

If it shoots better, then you know that you're not the problem and your rifle is not the problem.

If it doesn't shoot better, you'll know its likely not a component issue (I've shot C4 ammo and it shoots great), shoot the rest of them and you'll have 40 total pieces of quality brass that's been neck-turned and is ready for your reloading expertise.

If I sound hard, I'm not, I'm just really focused in helping with what your title is asking for by the shortest (and hopefully and cheapest) measure, and not going in ten different directions based on little more than assumptions.

Feel free to call or email if you have any questions. I've been shooting this caliber successfully in two custom rifles.

S. Grasseth
360-513-1235
[email protected]

Thanks for all the input man I definately don't think your being harsh at all I take it all in a very meaningful information. When I comes to brass I know Norma is much better brass but I don't have the equipment to turn necks and everything that it entails to get 7mm brass down to 6.5 and I've talked to several people that have 6+ firings on the SECOND run of hornady brass and I have 400 rounds of that so I'm not terribly worried about brass, hell I'll just buy more if it only likes brand new brass that's cheap compared to the 5k I have into the gun already. As for the copper creek that has came across my mind but lucky for me I live in the beautiful state of California and I can no longer buy ammo online and get it to my house. I now have 90 rounds down the tube and I feel that it's shooting more consistent but I didn't spend this kind of money to have a 3/4" gun. What are you shooting out of your saum's?

 

[clownbuster]

I'm shooting the Berger 140 gr Hybrids and Elite Hunters. Anything between 61.2 and 62.4 grains shot great, but they really dialed in at 1000 yards @ 61.4 grains, touching the lands, 3100 fps.

 

[clownbuster]

That's what I would do then; just load a new batch with new Hornady brass every time. However, that doesn't sound like it will get you under 3/4" @ 100 as you need the ability to run cases fire-formed to your chamber to get the highest accuracy from your rifle.
If you tire of trying to do this with the Hornady, after you get back from your hunt I can ship you some of my Norma 6.5 SAUM stash I've converted, neck turned and annealed.

 

[clownbuster]

Also, maybe try some Berger 130 VLDs or JLK 6.5 135 in it. Recently tried some and I couldn't shoot a bad group to save my life...

 

[Winefly]

Well that's a lot of interesting stuff has been said before hand personally I doubt Powder will make a difference but it looks from the pictures more like a bedding problem I would suggest that maybe the bedding hasn't been relieved it is a bit too tight so it's clicking between two positions if you get two in a hole and then to another hole to the left or right. Try checking the recoil lug to see if it's got clean square contact and make sure it's not being hung up on the corners.
Ask Smith if he relieved the epoxy after bedding?
are you putting the action into the stock with a light coat of grease or just dropping it in dry?
how tight is the action? does it drop out do you have to pull out or do you have to wiggle it out ?

 

[Tex_Hunter]

I skimmed through the last 5 pages to see if this had been recommended already, but if you intend to keep shooting Berger's, I'd say rather than targeting a specific jump/jam or pushing your brass so hard that its "single use only" I'd go back to your most consistent charge weight and perform the Berger OAL tuning exercise recommended in their reloading manual. Its 5 groups of 5 rounds loaded to different CBTO's which one of should be a sweet spot for the VLD type bullets. That's going to be way more time and cost efficient than anything else that's been recommend so far.

If you dont have the time/patience to do that simple test, then switch to a bullet that's easier to tune like the Berger Hybrid or the Hornady ELD. Your just going to burn out your barrel throat trying to make someone else's pet load run in your rifle. Do it the right way the first time or get a gun with factory ammo support.

 

[Tumbleweed]

Lots of good advice here. As some have said, don't limit yourself because of less than great brass. Let your rifle tell you where it's max load is which will probably be different than the load data or even what others are experiencing in this caliber. I would test and re-establish your true max. In your ladder test go up to this new max, there could be a higher node there that you're missing. There are very good, long term ways to repair primer pockets too. I NEVER pitch brass because of loose pockets anymore. I get at least 12 firings out of a warm loads in my RUM by repairing pockets as needed and annealing every other firing. It's usually the necks that finally start to crack.

 

[Tommy G]

Try the hornady 147 eldm. They shoot good in everything I've tried them in.