6.5 SAUM help please

[jamiebolseth]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned it yet, so I will. Shooting from a Lead Sled is not a good way to shoot tight groups. You have a pretty lightweight magnum rifle there, and it's going to move during the shot. One of the many problems with a sled is that there's practically no way to "feel" the rifle, and the pressures that you are exerting on it from a form standpoint. So you can't really create a consistent recoil impulse. Shoot it prone off a bipod, against your shoulder, with a rear bag for support. Dry fire 2-3 times before each shot to ensure your reticle doesn't move during the shot and your breathing and natural point of aim are good. Then assuming your form is decent, and you aren't jerking the trigger I bet your groups will tighten up considerably.

 

[Deviant]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned it yet, so I will. Shooting from a Lead Sled is not a good way to shoot tight groups. You have a pretty lightweight magnum rifle there, and it's going to move during the shot. One of the many problems with a sled is that there's practically no way to "feel" the rifle, and the pressures that you are exerting on it from a form standpoint. So you can't really create a consistent recoil impulse. Shoot it prone off a bipod, against your shoulder, with a rear bag for support. Dry fire 2-3 times before each shot to ensure your reticle doesn't move during the shot and your breathing and natural point of aim are good. Then assuming your form is decent, and you aren't jerking the trigger I bet your groups will tighten up considerably.

Thats a great point. I scrapped my lead sled a long time ago and moved to the prone position. For one thing i wont have it with me when Im hunting and I also found that I just could not get comfortable behind it. It alters my LOP too much and I can not get a consistent repeatable shooting position out of it.

 

[Timnterra]

You guys beat me to it. I'd scrap the lead-sled and buy a good quality stiff rear bag like the bench-rest guys use. You can shoot off a bipod or a front rest. I do all my load development off a front rest and rear bag set up like that. Lead sleds cause massive vibration in the barrel, especially with light thin barrels, because there is nothing to slowly absorb the recoil (like a human body) and it forces the shock wave back to the front of the rifle barrel. There is an excellent explanation out there on the inter-web of this concept it is called shockwave theory.They illustrate and explain how the vibrations, or shockwave from ignition, move back and forth on the rifle barrel like rope or cable, traveling to one end then back to the other.

 

[Rick Richard]

I have never had an issue with the lead sled, however I never shot with it loaded with weights. I have found the same POI the same regardless if shooting off the sled, front rest or bag. I do now just shoot off a bipod and rear bag.

 

[freddiej]

JD-250, Just a quick introduction of myself, I am 48, I have been reloading for nearly 40 years, yes, my father started me off early. I am also a gunsmith and a 1000 yard competitor. my best advice I can impart to you is this happened with my 17 remington, 22-250 Rem, 270 Winchester and some other guns that I have built. the keys to my one ragged hole groups is neck tension. I have a neck reaming die for each of my target and hunting rounds. I neck ream each and every round before I start reloading any virgin or once fired brass. second is barrel break in process. do you know what these products are J&B Bore paste and J&B Bore Bright? if not look them up on Brownell's website, they are what I use to clean and break in my own barrels. If you need to know my process then I will explain later on. As stated by others, a new barrel fouls fast, as in every other round will be so fouled that you will take 20 to 30 minutes with standard cleaning products to clean a barrel. My advice is clean your barrel every to everyother round for 25 to 50 rounds. Here is what I use and in the order I use them.
Plastic brush always, brass Jags, 22 caliber patches, Wipeout- Patcheout products.. their accelerator is the best product ever to be paired with the original wipeout patchout. first the accelerator, then pathcout, agitate for a few seconds. let it sit for 5 to 15 minutes then a dry patch or two. then standard Hoppe's 9 on a patch run through the bore, using the same patch on a jag, put JB bore paste and running breech to muzzle until black then hoppe's drenched patch, then dry patch. repeat if the patch gets black in the first or second pass.
if you need more you can write me directly at [email protected] or check out my facebook page custom firearms and gunsmithing.

 

[B-P-UU]

ditch the lead sled as previously mentioned.

 

[JD250]

Thanks guys I will definitely ditch the sled. I'm going to load up 59.8-60.6 in .2 increments and try them again as 60 was my best 5 shot group and also load the same thing at .010 off and compare the two. How often should I be cleaning it now? I've got 55 down the tube and I started by cleaning every shot for the first three then cleaned every three for 6 more then cleaned after 5 for two groups then cleaned after 10. It was dirty but in my eyes it wasn't to bad after about 2-3 wet patches and 6-8 dry ones it was pretty **** clean. Also how hot is to hot on the barrel I was shooting 3 shot groups in about 5 minutes I would feel the barrel between shots and it was warm but by no means hot...

 

[jrock]

My shot rate is 1 every 3 min. For 3 shot groups, I wait 3 times as long between strings. I also let the barrel cool with bolt open and barrel to the sky. Cools much faster that way.

 

[JD250]

Here's by best group which was 60gn h1000 at .020 and the other is the same load when I tried to proof it the next day

 

[B-P-UU]

Thanks guys I will definitely ditch the sled. I'm going to load up 59.8-60.6 in .2 increments and try them again as 60 was my best 5 shot group and also load the same thing at .010 off and compare the two. How often should I be cleaning it now? I've got 55 down the tube and I started by cleaning every shot for the first three then cleaned every three for 6 more then cleaned after 5 for two groups then cleaned after 10. It was dirty but in my eyes it wasn't to bad after about 2-3 wet patches and 6-8 dry ones it was pretty **** clean. Also how hot is to hot on the barrel I was shooting 3 shot groups in about 5 minutes I would feel the barrel between shots and it was warm but by no means hot...

that is plenty of cleaning - some would argue over-cleaning (myself included). I would stop cleaning for a while and get at least 50-100 on it before cleaning again.

 

[B-P-UU]

there is a chance the VLD's don't like the .020" jump. i usually start VLD's on the lands or .005" off with good results.

 

[Rhovee]

I personally haven't had a VLD shoot at 20
Off. Hybrids have shot 20 off before for me. VLD usually like very close like 10 off or closer and then another one way back between 60-80 off

 

[bayou shooter]

hey guys so I just had a new SAUM build it's on a defiance deviant medium action 24" bartlein with a break, chambered with the .120 reamer 8.5 twist jewell trigger bedded in a manners game warden stock topped with a nightforce nxs it was built by mike at hell's canyon armory. So I started my load development I'm shooting 140 vld hunters and h1000 .020" off. Started at 58gn and worked up .5gn to 61.5 and shot 5 shot groups and the best group I got was .5" with 60gn and with 60.5 shot bout .75-1" so I loaded up 59.8-60.4 and shot them today and didn't have a group under an inch and a half. What happened?? It's all brand new hornady brass neck sizeed and trimmed uniform. I'm not a master reloaded by any means but this rifle should shoot very well given all the parts I used and the smith I had build it the barrel is a 2b contour and I'm not letting it get hot it gets warm but definitely not hot today I shot three shot groups in about five minutes so I don't think it's to hot and the weather was only about 60 degrees. Does any one know what I'm doing wrong or something I should change?? I'm shooting out of a lead sled and have felt really good about my shots so I don't think it's me but most of my groups are inch and a half or bigger but most of the time it will put two shots in the same hole then jump over to the right usually an inch-inch n a half and put the others in another ragged hole im just not getting any consistency in my groups. For what it's worth my buddy has the identical gun built at the exact time by mike as well and his is doing pretty much the same thing we shot together today and his groups were doing the same thing except in vertical groups vs horizontal like mine. Any advise tips or knowledge is greatly appreciated!
Thanks

Before I did anything else, I would try a different powder. If a powder change doesn't work, then next I would try a different bullet. Many rifles are finicky about what they will shoot. You have to have a lot of patience and persistence. Possible ask the gun maker what he might suggest that you use to try and get an accurate round.

 

[cross]

Please let me know what you figure out. I have a 7mm Remington Magnum with a heavy Bartlein barrel on it and it behaves exactly as you describe. Several good groups over time but it practically refuses to repeat those good groups. I've had this rifle for a couple of years but I've probably fired 200-300 rounds through it trying to find a good consistent load for it. Mostly 180 Berger VLDs and hybrids and 175 ELDXs. Velocities are all over the place so things go from bad to worse when you get out a few hundred yards.

It's depressing. I'm having to borrow my son's T3x Lite 7RM for my deer hunt this year because it far outshoots my custom model 700 Bartlein, McMillan, NXS rifle.

Thanks, Cross