Fiftydriver
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Your bring up alot of good points but not ones i am questioning at all.Why is the focus on improving cases always about speed?
While the 6.5 PRC Primal is no doubt the least exciting of the improved 6.5 PRC-based cases we've done... to say it is not a good choice, leaves the door open for some very critical misunderstandings. What about precision and accuracy? Node stability? Pressure curve efficiency? Case longevity? etc etc etc?
I don't say this because we have 22, 6mm, 6.5, and 7mm improved versions of the 6.5 PRC... but because it's certainly worthwhile to some for more reasons than raw speed.
I'd argue that a 6mm dasher is quite a lot more impressive in all aspects than a straight 6BR. I'd argue that my .20-223AI's are wildly more impressive than a .223rem with equal weight bullets. A 7mm norma mag improved leaves a straight 300 norma in the dust. I could provide example after example in which a 40° shoulder variant produces considerably smaller results than its parent.
There's worlds more to this than speed. I promise you, those that have witnessed in person what the PRC Primal line of cartridges have been doing, aren't amazed by the speed so much as the impacts down range. Point in fact, the 6.5 PRC case has provided the most meaningful wildcats of any I've played with in the past decade.
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that said, you bring up internal ballistic issues that for all intent and purpose, are meaningless to the AVERAGE long range hunter. Are they legit, sure, but again, its like taking a BR rifle that will shoot in the ones and then take that rifle on a 3 mile hike in the mountains, see a big trophy mule deer walking through the pines across the valley at 800 yards and flopping down to take a shot and your breathing, heart rate and shooting position will create a situation where you will never ever realize if your rifle is shooting the most perfectly tuned load possible for that rifle or a load that will consistently hold 1/2 or even 3/4 moa. again, yes we want the most accuracy possible but when dealing with hyper performance rounds, finding a good usable load quickly is far more important then finding the best possible load. I test my rifles at 800 to 1000 yards to prove they have 1/2 moa accuracy potential before they ship.
these tests are conducted with for the most part unprepped brass, loaded up to within 1 grain of what i consider top working pressures and with bullets seater 10 thou off the lands. In over 90% of my rifles shipped, these first test loads prove the rifles capable of my 1/2 moa standard and 75% of my customers never look for any different load. They just use the same load year after year.
i tell them they could very likely find an even more consistent, accurate load but this load meets my standards. Most just stick to it. The precision, consistency and accuracy are certainly there, node stability, no idea…. Pressure curve efficency….. case longevity, my recommended loads will allow a minimum of 8 firings per case and generally over 10 firings if customer wants to do a couple annealings along the way.
i have heard for over two decades how case design is so critical and how some chamberings just are not accurate. Here it all the time with the 270 win and many others. However i have built dozens of 270 win rifles over the years and not a single one had any problem easily meeting my 1/2 moa accuracy requirements and as mentioned, i test at a minimum of 800 yards. In my experience, far more critical to accuracy then case design is a properly dimensioned chamber neck and throat.
your comparison of the dasher being superior to the BR, of course it is, the shoulder location is moved dramatically forward and also shoulder angle increased and body taper decreased, of course its a better design not only for accuracy but also performance as the case is dramatically changed.
again. Of course the 20-223 AI is vastly superior to the standard 223 with equal bullet weights, the BC of the 20 cal bullets of same weight will be far superior to anything in 224 caliber, huge advantage. That said, a well built 204 ruger with properly speced chamber will do anything the 20-223 ai will do although i suspect you will not agree with that.
your comparision of the 7mm Norma AI stomping the standard 300 norma, of course it will. The norma case actually gains dramatic case capacity when improved and the sharper shoulder angle will have many advantages as well but this again is not a simple AI change, this is a major change of that case to superior BC bullets with significantly increased case capacity. This is why i used this case for my 25, 26 and 27 Stalker wildcats, amazing but not a simple AI conversion comparison either.
i can also state example after example of customers having issues with function if 40 degree shoulders which range from feeding to issues sizing brass as brass Gets older. The advantages seen with a 40 degree shoulder are often the result of the new chamber being cut to true match specs and then compared to the parent case which is often cut to saami specs…. Again if your chasing the .1"s you may have a point, if your wanting to cleanly harvest a big game animal at long range, for the most part meaningless.
the results the prc are producing are simply a function of shot placement. I have used and built the 6.5 wsm for decades and it will do anything the prc will do. Some will say its not a factory loaded option…. That is true and i do not know a single serious long range hunter that uses factory ammo, at least not for long, as such, the saami standard is meaningless. Again, you are correct, not arguing that speed is the only thing that matters, never said that, my point was that to the OP, my opinion was it was not worth the investment in time and money to do an improved PRC. Never once mentioned anything about the lack of effectiveness of either round.
I talk out of about 60% of the guys wanting one of my wildcats because they either dont have the experience to use them at the ranges they are designed for or the need for such a wildcat and more times then not build them a rifle chambered for a much smaller round and are completely happy with the results. Again, this conversation has nothing to do with velocity being the end all, its about if an i orived round is worth the effort. In some instances as you list, certainly, in others, very marginal benefits.
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