6.5 Creedmor- the Holy Grail?

[okie man]

It's the Prius of the gun world!

 

[operator1]

I know I am going to get a bunch of flack for posting this, but....

In a recent conversation with a friend of mine, who has a grand slam of sheep on his bedroom wall, and a super slam of the rest of the game animals in North America less a barren ground caribou, I was told during a conversation about accurate smaller caliber rounds that he has four friends, who this year each lost mature elk bulls each with a 140 grain bullet reasonable well placed from a 6.5 Creedmor.
This cartridge, to me, seems to have the ability in many of its proponents minds to be the holy grail of all cartridge designs. It is sad when common sense is put back in the gun locker when any of us take to the woods with a weapon that doesn't really fill the bill for the game we hunt, when we know we have the horsepower in the locker to do the job properly.
Elmer Keith who we all know loved the .270 Winchester. But his favorite for hunting and guiding for elk is reported to be the .375 H&H. He also loved the .338 Win Mag.
Dead is Dead, but wounded is usually also dead but with a heavy dose of suffering to go with it.
I own a .338 Win Mag and have made it a point to be able to shoot it comfortably. I also own 2 25-06's and 3 .243's. I use the latter to plink, for my grandchildren to shoot deer, and for just a fun day on the range. When the hunt is on for me and as a back up it is 7mm Rem Mag, 7mm Exact or .338 Win Mag. Common sense to see that Dead is Dead when I pull the trigger on something worth shooting.

Couldn't have said it better. A 140 grain bullet is in my opinion not sufficient for an elk. I have hunted Elk for 50 years and I believe you should use sufficient power to make a good clean and abrupt kill. Using 140 grain is not right.

 

[Predator 22]

It's funny how many people here have such a hatred for the Creedmoor for no good reason. I don't even have a dog in this fight, but I do like the Creed for the simple fact that it is, TO ME, one of the best cartridge designs in its class. Yes there are other cartridges that do the exact same thing performance wise, but I think the Creed struck the best balance in its class.

 

[okie man]

I don't hate it! If I was gonna buy a new gun for my kid or girlfriend I might consider it but nothing about it thrills me enough too replace what I have already! Now the 6.5 prc does have my interest!

 

[WildRose]

Man, I love these stories.

Elk hunter crying in his beer at a western saloon.

Shot a big bull right thru the chest with a super-sizzle magnum. Pert near a perfect shot. How does he know it was a good shot? Why that's where he was aiming you **** fool !!!

Bull takes off and is never found. Hunter and his buddies drink to never using that inferior super-sizzle round again -- obviously need more gun and maybe better bullets.

Always wondered: If the bull is never recovered, how do you know it was a good hit, or that the bullet failed to perform well ? Just wondering.

Having killed elk with centerfire rifles of various calibers, muzzleloading rifles and long bow, I can attest to the fact that elk have a hard time running very far after receiving a significant wound to the heart/lung area, and as far as I know, God never made a bullet-proof elk.

Interesting thread, I guess.

BTW - I would not use a 6.5 CM for elk, I have a number of bigger options, but I also know a rancher in Montana who has killed a lot of elk with a beat-up old .250 Savage 99. Make the shot and the elk is yours. Broadside a shoulder blade with a lightly constructed bullet and you might be the one crying in your beer.

That must have all happened before Elk started growing Kevlar and Steel Plates.

 

[WildRose]

It's funny how many people here have such a hatred for the Creedmoor for no good reason. I don't even have a dog in this fight, but I do like the Creed for the simple fact that it is, TO ME, one of the best cartridge designs in its class. Yes there are other cartridges that do the exact same thing performance wise, but I think the Creed struck the best balance in its class.

It's not a hatred for the CM it's being tired of the BS and hype surrounding it giving it supernatural powers no cartridge actually possesses.

It's not magic and it wasn't an improvement over existing cartridges, just very well marketed and then blown completely out of proportion by "the right gunwriters".

 

[WildRose]

There was nothing left, all I found were small peices of copper in the soup at the bottom and when cutting around the entrance I found a couple small peices.

Ahh, pretty much what I'd expect with a high velocity impact and similar to my experience when I tried them in the .260's and .264wm.

 

[WildRose]

That is a very true statement. I know people in Utah that charge over $10k. For that price you get a farm raised trophy.

I'm not even talking about high fenced livestock, I'm talking about free range animals on private and reservation land. 5-10k just gets you started.

 

[WildRose]

I think a lot of this "you need a big magnum" talk is psychological. I've been there too - when i bought my first 30 cal mag (300 weatherby) it was for a colorado elk hunt 15 years ago. I didn't shoot it real great, but I felt cool telling everybody in camp what I shot. I went through the whole 300 ultra mag phase - bragging to everybody at camp about "hydrostatic shock" and then the deer I shot ran 150 yards lol. Its like the little guy who buys and owns the big jacked up truck trying to compensate for something.

When i bought those big 300 mags I was trying to compensate for a lack of experience - my dad didn't hunt and I would just tag along with whoever would let me. I thought if I had a big caliber there would be more respect at camp I guess.

Now they stay in the safe most of the time. Hunting with a lot of different people and groups has opened my eyes thats for sure. I've seen Lots of ---- poor shots with big magnums that the night before were bragged about around the campfire. I have a lot more experience now and am totally comfortable rolling into camp with my 270 wsm, 25-06 or 260 Rem.

Pick your POA/POI based on the bullet, range, caliber/cartridge and game. Put it where it belongs and you have a dead animal.

The 6.5x55 has taken more large game world wide than any other including all of the African large game.

You don't need magic, you don't need a cannon, just a little common sense and experience.

A poor shot with a cannot doesn't kill any faster or cleaner than a good shot made with a rifle of smaller caliber you are confident and competent in shooting.

 

[WildRose]

I use a 6.5 CM in long range (up to 1200 yards) steel target matches. Handloaded with 140 gr HornadyELD-M bullets, my Savage 12 LRP will shoot 1/4 MOA if I do my part. It's a SUPERB cartridge for ringing steel. Also same rifle and cartridge combo has been deadly on Prairie dogs - max kill to date 750 yards. HOWEVER, I just shot my first whitetail with my Savage 16 using factory 6.5 CM 143 gr ELD-X two weeks ago at only 175 yards. Slight quartering away shot right behind the near-side shoulder, no visible entrance wound, took out lungs, and busted off side shoulder, BUT DID NOT EXIT. I could feel the shards of bullet just under skin on off-side. Although deer was DRT, I was very surprised/disappointed in terminal ballistics and results of the 6.5 CM with the ELD-X bullet. Although I love the 6.5 CM and had previously thought I would have "enough gun" for an elk hunt (so say many of the gun scribes), that thought has been shattered. Even for whitetail, I think I am going to switch to a Barnes TTSX bullet and limit shots to 400 yards. ELK Killer? Maybe - under the right circumstances. But as many here expressed, for higher confidence and with thousands of sunk costs, I think 7mm Mag would be my minimum caliber choice.

The ELD-X is made to be a long range bullet, not a short range bullet. At high velocity it's going to fragment pretty much every time.

Match the bullet to the game, the range, and intended POI. You chose the wrong bullet for that application if you wanted a nice exit wound. The Hornady Interbond would have been a much better choice.

 

[WildRose]

Here's a little food for thought:

Why has is taken so long for the .264/6.5mm to popularize in North America? With such a long, rich history of firearms development and ownership in the United States, why has it taken so long?

For the same reason other metric cartridges took a long time to catch on here. There has been a lot of resistance against anything European/Metric among hunters in the US pretty much up until remington introduced the 7RM.

The .264wm was doomed by a handful of snotty anti magnum writers and to the lower quality barrel steel available in that era.

 

[26Reload]

Couldn't have said it better. A 140 grain bullet is in my opinion not sufficient for an elk. I have hunted Elk for 50 years and I believe you should use sufficient power to make a good clean and abrupt kill. Using 140 grain is not right.

Well i guess i shouldn't have shot that bull with a 140gr acc in the ear at 350 yards......with a 7rm....
Don't make gripe where it isn't warranted.....140 in the ear from a 6.5 anything would have also killed it.....and many more lesser cartridges.....

 

[WildRose]

Right, because .224, .270, .30 and .338 don't have those characteristics. Try again. You'll get it eventually. The answer hits at the core of this thread.

20 years ago there weren't more than a handful of hunters that ever considered SD or BC when selecting ammo or components, they just shot whatever Winchester and Remington were loading or what the guy at the gunshop recommended.

Today we have a much better educated shooting and hunting community but unfortunately they are still highly susceptible to marketing hype and BS.

Look at how bad we are here for chasing the latest Heaviest, Highest BC for caliber bullet that comes out next even to the extent of rebarreling specifically to shoot them when in the real world noone who isn't shooting beyond 800yds is going to realize any appreciable benefit from doing so.

It's been pretty much the same with "magnumitis". People new to the sport jump on the biggest cased magnum they can get their hands on only to fire a few shots from it and find out they can't handle the recoil so we end up with a lot of very nice "barely used" or "very low round count" Rums, and Lapuas for sale at a fraction of what the original owner had to pay by the time the price comes down enough to sell them.

 

[Predator 22]

It's not a hatred for the CM it's being tired of the BS and hype surrounding it giving it supernatural powers no cartridge actually possesses.

It's not magic and it wasn't an improvement over existing cartridges, just very well marketed and then blown completely out of proportion by "the right gunwriters".

This thread and others like are the bs and hype! I will agree with you that it DOESN'T have any supernatural powers and no magic whatsoever. The only advantage It has is its shorter oal. And that only matters if you have a oal restriction.