6.5 Creedmor- the Holy Grail?

[RockyMtnMT]

Haha - whatevs bro...I don't know you from adam, but you say some crazy stuff and contradict and seem to comtradict yourself. I guess I expected a little more out of a guy in the bullet making business. Since you are being super generous with the 3100fps velocity in the 7mm08, lets be equally generous with the 6.5 creedmoor and give it a little more velocity than 2700 fps. Then lets run those ballistics. Go back and read your comments bro - i don't agree with a lot of opinion on here, but most guys are consistant in there beliefs. You are all over the place.

You forgot the ballistics. Try again.

 

[WildRose]

The higher 6.5s IMO are the Nosler and weatherby which should be around 3400 no? Especially since if we are giving the CM 2800 we are talking handloads

Have to include the .264wm there I think. It will comfortably run 140's at 3,200+

 

[WildRose]

It's funny how guys get over elk, saying to take an elk cartridge, well define this magical elk cartridge!
The absolute worst guys I've ever hunted around for loosing elk or someone having to follow elk into the timber and killing them for them shoot, 340 Weatherby's, my worst elk killing experiences was with a 300 WBY and Barnes bullets.
What you pack, what chambering, what bullet you shoot does not make you an elk killing beast, shot placement and knowing where the strength and weakness is in your system, I just don't think most guys can handle accepting they are the largest weakness! I also don't think guys accept that they can NOT pull the trigger when they see elk, NOT shooting is always an option!!

Not that I've mentioned this before but match the bullet and placement with the game being sought and put it where it belongs for success.

I dropped a very large boar tonight at 783yds in the middle of a half section wheatfield running up a waterway with the lowly .260 and a 123gr Peregrine VLR5.

One shot right behind the shoulder with him angling away at about 30 deg. Never took a step.

 

[WildRose]

I think we all can agree that the 6.5 creed is not the ideal elk cartridge past 300 yards. It's just not, it's not arguable.
However There is something to be said for shooting something that you familiar, comfortable, and confident with. Shot placement is paramount but kinetic energy is important too, especially on elk and the like.
As far as being the grail of cartridges, that just makes me laugh. I'm not a fan of the 6.5 creedmore as I think it's decent at a lot but great at nothing. It's a testament to what advertising can do. All hornady did was reinvent the wheel with the 6.5 creed. The 6.5 creedmore popularity can be chalked up to people wanting the new thing.

The "Ideal Elk Cartridge" depends on a whole lot of factors including who's carrying and shooting the gun.

 

[WildRose]

Also completely irrelevant unless you're shooting elk at point blank range. That 143 ELD-X is going to hold energy way better down range due to its BC.

Not when compared to a high BC .300wm leaving the bore at around 3,000fps. Even the 200gr ELD-X running 2850 is going to have considerably more energy at any range than the 6.5CM shooting the 143.

At 500yds the .300wm will have almost twice the energy and is still running over 2150fps/2020E compared to the CM 2030fps/1300E.

 

[WildRose]

So what you're saying is, if Remington had created the 260 Rem with a faster twist and ammo that actually shot well with bullets that people actually wanted to use, it would have been popular. Yeah... so, if Rem had done the 260 right (basically making it a Creedmoor), it would be so popular today that elitists would be trashing it as the hipster cartridge of choice and the Creedmoor would have never needed to be developed!

Instead, the 260 was spec'd with a 1:9" twist, a 2.035" case and a 2.8" COL, meaning it wouldn't properly stabilize the heavy-for-caliber bullets (not talking soft points here) and you'd have to cram bullets down in to the case to make COL. Obviously hand-loaders can seat bullets out to whatever COL they want and most LR 260 shooters build with a faster-twist barrel.

The point of the Creedmoor was to make something in a factory configuration where you don't need to buy a custom fast-twist barrel or hand load to be able to make use of high-performance projectiles. It worked and has become the best selling cartridge of the last few years.

Do any of the LR shooters here that trash the Creedmoor because they like the 260 even use a SAAMI spec, 1:9" twist 260 Rem? Or use factory ammo?

If Remington invented the gold brick they would have somehow managed to screw it up and still go bankrupt.

The .260 however was created to meet the military specs at the time for a new battle rifle.

Apparently they were too stupid to see it's potential as a small and medium game caliber as well.

There were also basically few if any heavy for caliber high bc bullets available on the civilian market at the time to feed it.

 

[hunter67wa]

In the end after 230 posts. Poor shooting, poor bullet choice, poor decisions with not staying in limits.

Man needs to know his limits.

 

[WildRose]

If you had a choice to use a small caliber 6.5 that you were proficient with or a magnum that you were less proficient with which would you choose? I'm somewhat recoil sensitive and find myself flinching when shooting the bigger caliber cartridges. On the other hand I feel super confident I can put it where I want it with the smaller calibers. I feel if I use the right bullet and keep my distance as short as possible I'll take my 6.5. In a perfect world I'd be less of a sissy and could shoot the big boys without flinching.

You and millions of others who won't admit it.

It took me years to get where I wasn't recoil shy because I was started off too young with a heavy recoiling magnum with no brake that was too much for me as a kid.

I never flinched with anything else but anything that had "magnum in the name" just had me.

 

[adam32]

In the end after 230 posts. Poor shooting, poor bullet choice, poor decisions with not staying in limits.

Man needs to know his limits.

And people believing marketing hype over real life proven numbers.

 

[WildRose]

I do not have anything against the Creedmore but it is anything but the Holy Grail! It is kind of like the 300AAC BlackOut in that it is a cartridge looking for a problem to solve. For some the 6.5 makes perfect sense as does the 6.5x47 but hunting is not it's strong suit. If you ignore the anemic loading of SAAMI standards on the 6.5x55 for example or ignore the terrible 260 brass that Remington makes the 6.5 Creedmore kind of starts to look irrelevant for hunting. I would not go out of my way to acquire or rebarrel to 6mm or 6.5 Creedmore. If you are buying new or you have a worn out barrel and need to rebarrel anyway the Creedmore's can make sense outside of just paper punching but not a Holy Grail at all! Lastly if you are talking about it on an old long action I would say it is waste of space and might present feeding issues compared to building on a short action.

This might come as a surprise to some on this forum but we have had a lot of fairly light recoiling non-magnums for the last 70 years for sure. In fact the further back you go generally the less recooil until you get into the Arms Race that was the introduction of the Spitzer bullet and smokeless powder. 30-06 SPR, 30-40 Krag, 7.62x51, .243 Win, 260 Remington, 280 Rem, 257 Roberts, 250/300 Savage, 300 Savage. 303 British, 7mm Mauser, 6.5x55 Swede all fairly light on recoil for a grown man or woman. If we are talking small stature women and youth the .243 Win, 260 Rem, 6.5x55 all pretty good the rifles weight and stock dimensions being bigger issues. On top of that they can be down loaded if you want as well.

The 6.5x47 makes the most sense in the above situation but you will likely never see it in the USA in any significant numbers or from a large OEM. Prob. 25 years ago or more I proposed a 6.5x39 as in built on the Russian Intermediate cartridge case for the SKS and it would still be a great idea. Sadly a lot of people on this sight would be disappointed and would have to do a 6.5x39AI. I also thought a 5.56 projectile based off of a 44 Rem Mag case in a revolver would have put a quick end to the Florida Bank Robbery of note due to full body armor being used. At close range a 5.56 NATO projectile fired from a revolver being pushed by a 44 Mag case would have given police rifle like velocities at close range and fit in the glove box of the police car or in a holster. I was thinking Ruger Super RedHawk with a 9.5 inch barrel etc. Likewise building it off a .30 Carbine case would also work. No one has offered an auto loader in .30 Carbine since AMT went out of business.

We all know that the Holy Grail is the 6.5 STW and 6.5x300 Weatherby! LOL Especially if you want to keep after market barrel makers in business.

6.5-375 Ruger just because it's cooler!

 

[VTbluegrass]

I will start with I have never been on an elk hunt and it may be awhile before I get the opportunity being that I live in eastern NC, but the day I get a rifle draw I will likely take the 7RM in my cabinet over my 6.5 or 270. That being said within appropriate ranges for the cartridge I wouldn't think 6.5 a totally inappropriate. The animals fall to stick and string every year and I have yet to set an arrow create more havoc than a high power rifle.
What I have seen a lot is people that couldn't follow a blood trail and didn't know what sign to look for when dry tracking a wounded animal. Many people will write it off as a miss or loss if its not DRT or if it doesn't look like a Teranteno scene when they look for blood. I have found numerous animals for friends and a few strangers who either by inexperience or laziness came to the conclusion they missed or made a bad hit on a deer.

That's a really long way of saying I blame field craft.

 

[WildRose]

Creating a new product and wanting to sell it = whoring-out. Got it...

6.5 CM is reinvention of the 260 - not hardly. If the 260 didn't have a 1:9" twist, had better throat design and more room to set out long, heavy bullets the Creedmoor wouldn't have needed to be designed.

6.5 PRC is a reinvention of a wildcat called the 6.5 SAUM. Nope. Hornady already made the 6.5 SAUM cases for GA Precision. Could have simply done ammo and standardized with SAAMI but wanted the cartridge to be more commercially viable. The rebated rims are a pain to make and not as easy to get to feed in a wide variety of rifles. Absolutely common knowledge and not hidden at all.

300 PRC - yeah, Hornady first necked the 375 Ruger down right after creating the actual 375 Ruger. It lived as a wildcat for years but when the DoD was looking at something better than the 300 Norma Mag for +2k engagements, Hornady went further in to development on it. Then launched it commercially. Are you really mad they didn't call it the 30-375 Ruger? It's also been known as the 300 Boo boo and 300 HSM over the years. Had to settle on something.

You don't like factory ammo - no problem. I'm not going to change your mind. I don't care. I do care about posts that blatantly claim marketing hype and how factories "whore-out" by creating new products and wanting sales. Not enough to keep posting in this thread though.

Hornady recognized the potential of a short action 6.5 and had the advantage of about 7 years advancement in bullet tech.

Their team was also competing against .260's throughout that era who came back and told them of it's success.

Hornady then realized that with the new bullets it could do amazing things and came up with their own improvement over the .260.

When however you run the two size by side, same bullets, same twist rates etc they are pretty well ballistic twins.

About the only two things Remington has come up with in the last sixty years they didn't screw up were the 7RM and the 300 Rum; Somehow they got those two about right.

It had to be a complete accident in both cases.

 

[hunter67wa]

I have shot deer with a 7.62x39 with fmj to see how it would work. Shot the deer at 40 yards and didn't push it. it walked 20 yards and died mo ricky tic. A 30 cal hole through both lungs is fatal. Now!

 

[MudRunner2005]

And people believing marketing hype over real life proven numbers.

I'm starting to realize that despite age, those of us who have been hunting and shooting guns our whole lives are now being looked at by these newbies and younger generation, like we're that old guy trying to give advice... And they're just standing there with bad attitude, thinking we're dumb, and telling us, "No man, you geezers just don't understand my generation...!"

Unfortunately for them, their generation is full of idiots who don't believe anything unless they saw it on Fakebook, youtube, or the interwebz, CNN, MSNBC...Or heard it from another one of their equally stupid friends. If anyone else tries to tell them something, they don't believe it...Even if they can look it up on their beloved smartphone constantly in front of their face... The zombie apocalypse is now upon us... And the zombies are Generation-Z...