6.5 Creedmoor or 25-06 for Deer

[Michael O'Connor]

That's because Hornady was the ones who made the brass for his 6.5 GAP 4s... The 6.5 PRC is just Hornady's version of the 6.5 GAP 4s. I think I already stated this.

Yes Sir, two completely different cases though. 6.5 PRC is from the 300 Ruger Compact Magnum, whose parent case is the 375 Ruger Magnum. The 6.5 GAP 4S is from the 300 SAUM, and they are totally different cases. The only thing common to both is the .532 magnum bolt face. The 6.5 GAP 4S enjoys about 3 or 3.5 grains more powder capacity. The 6.5 PRC Performs within 50 fps of the larger diameter SAUM case.

 

[Edd]

I think a more accurate comparison, using Nosler components and data, would be to compare a 120 gr 257 Partition to a 125 gr 264 partition or a 115 gr 257 Ballistic Tip to a 120 gr 264 Ballistic tip.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Yes Sir, two completely different cases though. 6.5 PRC is from the 300 Ruger Compact Magnum, whose parent case is the 375 Ruger Magnum. The 6.5 GAP 4S is from the 300 SAUM, and they are totally different cases. The only thing common to both is the .523 magnum bolt face. The 6.5 GAP 4S enjoys about 3 or 3.5 grains more powder capacity. The 6.5 PRC Performs within 50 fps of the larger diameter SAUM case.

Either way, I have zero desire to own either cartridge, so really doesn't matter to me.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I think a more accurate comparison, using Nosler components and data, would be to compare a 120 gr 257 Partition to a 125 gr 264 partition or a 115 gr 257 Ballistic Tip to a 120 gr 264 Ballistic tip.

Run the numbers and post the results.

Steve

 

[Edd]

Run the numbers and post the results.

Steve

I'm too hungry, maybe later.

 

[Barrelnut]

Federal web site has a comparison app for their ammo. It's pretty good for comparing factory ammo choices.
Here are graphs for:
BLUE - Federal 25-06 120 Gr. Fusion Speer SP with BC .468
YELLOW - 6.5 CM 120 Gr. Trophy Copper BC .497

 

[HARPERC]

.......This could transition into a complete and total Thread hi-jack, so I'll end this post now.....

Too late,

.....Either way, I have zero desire to own either cartridge, so really doesn't matter to me......

You've weighed in on too many similar threads for this to be true, the doesn't matter part anyway

The original question is pretty easy for me, pick a rifle that meets your particular needs, as there isn't that much difference in capability when talking a general hunting rifle.

As far as "typical" rifles the 6.5 has the advantage of being descended from an era in which heavy for caliber bullets were the way to go. A good video from Zen Archery recently is a good example of how old school still works for normal use. No range mentioned that I recall, but the 160 grain Hornady still works, I believe it's still a round nose. Good video in the hog hunting section. Even my .375 H&H using 248 Hammer's (Steve called it a ballistic pig) got reliable hits on my steel squirrel at 275 yards.

In the context of Long Range Hunting/ Shooting, when case capacities are similar the typical twist rates, and subsequently the bullets generally available, favor the 6.5.

In the context of "wild hare" projects where the bullet and barrel don't exist yet, why choose a 6.5 over a .257, can be a little more of a Goldilocks decision on which is "just right" or for that matter a 7mm, .30 and on. It will be interesting to see the ELR results from the upcoming shoot what the choices were, and how it plays out. As well as bullet type I think we'll see "turned" bullets at the front of the pack, and nobody concerned with magazine length..

For me, the factors in how I would use such a rifle is eliminating what I don't need. I don't need a 30-50 lb ELR rifle-16 lbs is about all I can lug around. I won't hunt big game with it. 160 grains in a 16 lbs rifle with break should be very shootable. Taking big game off the table, simplifies bullet construction to what shoots, and what don't. This is not to say Steve won't come up with something very usable, for hunting, or that the current Hammer's in 137, or 139 wouldn't wreak havoc on soft tissue. No Tactical Matches, no magazine worries.

Barrel life-only means if I don't like it, I can change it sooner. Maybe something milder like a 6.5X65R in my #1, or bigger like a Lapua Improved, on a beefy custom action with no magazine cut. No different than, buying, or trading every couple months really.

What it might get used for: Dynamite shoot, 2 shots and back in line, rock chucks-periodic cold bore shots through the day, long range coyote (might have access to a dump from a small hog processing outfit). A slow rate of fire anyway.

If you want to rock the .257 world, call Steve, and get the ball rolling on a bullet that brings it into the current era, cause you're only falling further behind!

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I'm too hungry, maybe later.

Funny how that works.

Steve

 

[Canhunter35]

IMO I think this thread is a great example of when cartridges designed for competitions/targets come up against "hunting" rounds. 120 gr bullets, shown by barrelnut and 7stw eight pages ago, are darn near the same. Being that the creedmoor does it on a short action? Interesting to say the least. But in reality, everybody is running around screaming 140+Gr 6.5 bullets and in practical hunting situations the 120s will serve the majority of deer hunters better. No different than the 25-06 has been doing for 70? years.

 

[Edd]

Run the numbers and post the results.

Steve

Per the Nosler data, there is about 200 fps difference in the two cartridges.

I used 3000 fps for the CM with a 125 gr Partition and 3200 fps for the 25-06 with a 120 gr partition on the JBM calculator.

The 25-06 always has the advantage for drop. The CM always has the advantage for drift.

The CM overtakes the 25-06 for energy at 450 yds. The energy on both of them dropped to the 1100 point at 500 yards.

The differences in all the numbers were small all the way to 1000 yds.

I think the question was correctly answered in post #10.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Per the Nosler data, there is about 200 fps difference in the two cartridges.

I used 3000 fps for the CM with a 125 gr Partition and 3200 fps for the 25-06 with a 120 gr partition on the JBM calculator.

The 25-06 always has the advantage for drop. The CM always has the advantage for drift.

The CM overtakes the 25-06 for energy at 450 yds. The energy on both of them dropped to the 1100 point at 500 yards.

The differences in all the numbers were small all the way to 1000 yds.

I think the question was correctly answered in post #10.

In this comparison the the Creed has a .8" advantage for wind at 400y and 2.2" at 600y. At 600y this would amount to 1 click of wind.

So I thought while we are at this comparison of the Great Creed to the lowly 25-06 I would go ahead and run the numbers for each of them with 100g Partitions. The Creed would run them at 3270fps and the '06 at 3360fps. At 400y the Creed has 20.3" of drop and 14.1" of drift. The '06 has 17.7" of drop and 11.4" of drift. At 600y the Creed has 68" of drop and 35.2" of drift. The '06 has 58.2" of drop and 28" of drift. That gives the '06 a wind advantage of 7.2" or 1.25moa. This would be as apples to apples as these two cartridges can be compared.

The only way the Creed will ever keep up with the 25-06 is if you convert it into a 6.5-06. No matter how you slice it, it is a smaller cartridge.

A good comparison would be to compare the 260rem to the Creed.

Steve

 

[desertcj]

In this comparison the the Creed has a .8" advantage for wind at 400y and 2.2" at 600y. At 600y this would amount to 1 click of wind.

So I thought while we are at this comparison of the Great Creed to the lowly 25-06 I would go ahead and run the numbers for each of them with 100g Partitions. The Creed would run them at 3270fps and the '06 at 3360fps. At 400y the Creed has 20.3" of drop and 14.1" of drift. The '06 has 17.7" of drop and 11.4" of drift. At 600y the Creed has 68" of drop and 35.2" of drift. The '06 has 58.2" of drop and 28" of drift. That gives the '06 a wind advantage of 7.2" or 1.25moa. This would be as apples to apples as these two cartridges can be compared.

The only way the Creed will ever keep up with the 25-06 is if you convert it into a 6.5-06. No matter how you slice it, it is a smaller cartridge.

A good comparison would be to compare the 260rem to the Creed.

Steve

That's actually pretty ironic, since the .260 and the 25-06 are basically ballistic twins for practical purposes.

 

[djm670]

In this comparison the the Creed has a .8" advantage for wind at 400y and 2.2" at 600y. At 600y this would amount to 1 click of wind.

So I thought while we are at this comparison of the Great Creed to the lowly 25-06 I would go ahead and run the numbers for each of them with 100g Partitions. The Creed would run them at 3270fps and the '06 at 3360fps. At 400y the Creed has 20.3" of drop and 14.1" of drift. The '06 has 17.7" of drop and 11.4" of drift. At 600y the Creed has 68" of drop and 35.2" of drift. The '06 has 58.2" of drop and 28" of drift. That gives the '06 a wind advantage of 7.2" or 1.25moa. This would be as apples to apples as these two cartridges can be compared.

The only way the Creed will ever keep up with the 25-06 is if you convert it into a 6.5-06. No matter how you slice it, it is a smaller cartridge.

A good comparison would be to compare the 260rem to the Creed.

Steve

And we shall assume that the 6.5 mm being larger diameter at the same weight as the .25-06 will be slowing down faster due to it's larger frontal area.

 

[Michael O'Connor]

Either way, I have zero desire to own either cartridge, so really doesn't matter to me.

Yes Sir, I am getting away from Magnum cases to simplify reloading inventory. I want a lighter gun in a switch barrel design to eliminate two rifles uncommon to each other and add two that have the same basic case and action. Thank you.