6.5 CM or 260 Rem

[JohnCZ]

I really like 6.5, Swede has done the business for a long time and done it well and I have no doubt that I will offend some people but 800 metres is a long way down the paddock for any short action cartridge. I know 6.5 marketing is hot right now but bigger faster bullets are better for putting energy on living targets. There are simply better tools for the job at that range.

 

[5.56×250]

Personally, I agree with others assessment on the effective KILLING range of the creed. I built mine as a 500yd max HUNTING rig for whitetail deer that might top 200lbs .
I think the average Joe Blow sees that the creed is an effective TARGET rifle out past 1000yds and assumes it has the energy to kill big game at those ranges. Steel plates dont bleed and to kill it all you need is a "bink" .
There are those that say its ok to shoot elk sized game at 600-800yds with the 260 or 6.5 creed. Some have pulled it off too. To them I say, I know a guy that dropped a 120lbs doe at 200yds in its tracks with a 22LR ! True story ! Just because he did it, sure as heck doesnt mean it was the right thing to do .
If I had a chance to chase elk, and was forced to use the creed, I would limit my shots to 200yds and in.

 

[pacowboy]

So let's get back on track here.

We are discussing the 6.5 creedmoor and the 260 as my choices. I have read where people are getting 3050 with a 140 out of the 6.5 creedmoor and 3100 out of the 260.

I wanna do that with a 22" barrel. Is the 260 the way to go? Will the 6.5 creedmoor be more accurate?

It seems as if a lot of people want to express their opinions on something I didn't ask about.

I used a 6.5x.284 with 140gr Berger's to shoot 1k at Williamsport. Remington 700 long action with a 28" Hart bbl using 48.5 gr of H4350 and was getting 3000-3050fps.

 

[SavageHunter11]

Ballistics wise, they are identical with almost the same case capacity. The 6.5 creed is shorter and so you can load longer, heavier high BC bullets in a BDM format. Ammunition is available everywhere, both for target or hunting.

If you plan to hand load then go with the 260 but do the AI version. It will do everything the Creed does with another 100 fps of added speed.

IMO - it is too light for 1000 lb.bull elk, but I wouldn't hesitate to use it on 600 lb.cow elk under 500 yards

As much as I love my Creedmoor I have to agree with this response 100% whole heartedly. I would not feel comfortable taking my creedmoor on an elk hunt unless I knew without a doubt I'd have a bull inside 300 yards and even then I'd wish I brought a different gun. If you handload definitely go 260AI if you have to have a 6.5mm bullet but I'd really suggest going with something like a 280AI, 7mm Rem, 300 win mag, 300PRC, etc if you plan to hunt and shoot big elk at any distance over 300 yards.

 

[SCSCHNUR]

The new 7mm's will beat them all.

What about the 270wsm I really think it is a good all round bulllet. I also like the 280 AI. Also like the 264WM. or a 300wsm

 

[CRaTxn]

They do good at keeping the drop and wind drift to a minimum, but they don't often beat a 30 cal in delivered energy, which is important in hunting.

Now Berger is finally delivering their new 6.5 156 Gr. Elite Hunter next month. That could be a bit of a game changer. I think a 6.5 156 gr. bullet out of a 6.5x284 in a long action and throated for it would probably be awesome.

They do good at keeping the drop and wind drift to a minimum, but they don't often beat a 30 cal in delivered energy, which is important in hunting.

Now Berger is finally delivering their new 6.5 156 Gr. Elite Hunter next month. That could be a bit of a game changer. I think a 6.5 156 gr. bullet out of a 6.5x284 in a long action and throated for it would probably be awesome.

 

[JDD]

So let's get back on track here.

We are discussing the 6.5 creedmoor and the 260 as my choices. I have read where people are getting 3050 with a 140 out of the 6.5 creedmoor and 3100 out of the 260.

I wanna do that with a 22" barrel. Is the 260 the way to go? Will the 6.5 creedmoor be more accurate?

It seems as if a lot of people want to express their opinions on something I didn't ask about.

You are not going to do that with a 22" barrel with either. My kimber pro hunter in 6.5 cm barely approaches 2700 with factory Ammo. At sea level . I think of the cm and stock 260 has a 500 yard deer round. Yes it can kill further out in skillfully hands but it is running out of steam. The 7 mm short mag will do it ,so will the win mag. My choice is the 280 ackley or the 6.5 prc. When a round starts running out of steam bullet performance becomes critical "will the bullet mushroom consistently at those FPS. " I know your asking just about the 260 or the 6.5 cm I own both. Neither are going to do what you want as your guide lines state. I was range safety officer at a 1100 yard range and have shot both extensively and seen and chronograph many other 6.5 cm while setting them up to bang steel. I know from first hand experience what I told you

 

[JDD]

I think you would have issues getting to those velocities with a 156 grain even with a 6.5x284 or 6.5 PRC with a 26 inch barrel. I can't get close to them with my 26" Creedmoor with a 143.

Not to mention no accuracy unless you can find a 7" twist

 

[CRaTxn]

What your ego says about recoil tolerance and what you type on this blog is different from what your grouping shows on paper. Archery has taught us a massive wound channel is not necessary but "bullet placement" and "adequate penetration" are. Modern bullet construction makes a smaller modern bullet weight perform like a caliber larger of the old cup & lead core non-bonded bullets. Shoot what you shoot well and don't worry about the "old heads" admonition to get the edge with MAGNUM 300/338s. You are looking at 6.5 probably because you are sensitive to recoil. It's like Dirty Harry said, "A man has to know his limitations". Enjoy your shooting and use discretion in the shots you take.

 

[Rhino55]

I'm not getting in the hunting discussion here but I will say about my personal experience about the rifles. I have built a 6.5x284. 1-8 twist. 260 Remington 1-8 twist and just finished a 260 Remington IMP with30 degree shoulders. With the 6.5x284 I use 52gr of H 1000 under a 140 Berger VLD. I'm getting 2950 fps. I want to keep my speed down because throat erosion doubles over 3000 fps. On the 260 I'm using H4350 under a 130 Berger hunting VLD and getting 2750 fps. On just built 260 Remington IMP. I'm getting 2890 with H4350 under a 142 gr SMK. All three rifles are getting less than .50 MOA at 100 yds. I'm still fire forming brass with the IMP and playing with bullet seats depth to see if i can tighten the group up from .430 MOA. Yes the 6.5 CM does have a wider commercial line on the shelves but what is the fun of buying commercial ammo when you are looking for accuracy. Oh. The IMP does have a Keriger 1x7.5 twist barrel. I built it to shoot PRS. One last thing. I have a 308 built to M40 specs. It will shoot right along with my 260 all day long using M 118 LR ammo from LC.

 

[lightshooter]

I think the OP might be confused by all the misleading info on the 6.5 cm that is floating around. When he says "it's my understanding that the 6.5 cm outperforms .30's at distance" there's is a shred of truth in that statement but only for certain aspects. It's true that the 6.5 cm has a very similar trajectory as a 300 wm with less powder and recoil, BUT it doesn't match the energy delivered on target. It's also true all things being equal that a 6.5 retains more velocity and energy than a .308 at distance, and with less wind drift, but at the distance that you see that advantage is still a lot less then the 1500 ft lbs threshold for killing elk ethically.
I love my 6.5 cm. It's super accurate, easy to load for, very accurate factory ammo, but I love it for what it is. It's great for deer and smaller at distance, target, and it's ok for elk inside of 500 yds but not my first choice.
I load 140's over max and I'm just a hair over 2800 with a 24" barrel.
There's no way you can get those speeds safely. With what you're wanting you need a 6.5 mag of some sort, prc, Sherman... Better still would be .284/7mm or bigger.
Good luck in your pursuits.

 

[MudRunner2005]

What about the 270wsm I really think it is a good all round bulllet. I also like the 280 AI. Also like the 264WM. or a 300wsm

I've always had 7mm's, so I never saw a need for any .270's. Personal preference would be the 7 WSM or 7mm SS.

 

[Andrew Cowling]

Good question. As a gunsmith and licenced manufacturer of amunition I have built and use a few 260 Remington. The 6.5-08 A square as it was originally called till Remington stole it was a great round. Unfortunate Remington killed it by selling the round in guns with short barrels and too slow twist rates.

The 6.5 creedmore is just another case of someone trying to reinvent the wheel. It can do everything the 260 Remington can do but at much higher pressures.

Since you have indicated that you will be hand loading Lapua make good quality brass. Also ammo availability is irrelevant in you case due to hand loading. Most load dater for the 260 is quite anemic. My personal experiences with this round is that loaded up it creams all over the 6.5 creedmore in velocity and down range distances.

At a pinch and 243 winchester brass can be expanded up or 308 winchester brass can be sized down to make 260 remington. Just anneal the necks first.

When I originally built mine Lapua wasn't making brass for the 260. Only had crappy Remington brass availiable. But I did have some new 308 winchester PMC match brass. I annealed the necks then run them through the full length sizer. Necks were then turned and insides reamed and trimmed. Primer pockets uniformed and flash holes debured. I am onto 7 loadings now with 1 necke turn and trim at 5 firings.

Groups are amazing if I do my part fired from my custom Ruger VT action from a 28 inch 1-8 twist barrel made by Total Solutions Engineering here in Australia. 139 gr lapua scenar projectils leave the barrel at an average of 2800 fps. Average groups are 5 shot half inch at 300 metres. The chamber was cut with a custom reamer of my specifications made for me by manson reamers.

So for me it is a 260 Remington all the way. 6.5 Creedmore is for guys who where man buns. Lol

 

[wackinandstackin243]

If you're planning on using VLD bullets, go with the shorter case . Maybe even consider the shorter case of the 6.5 Lapua. VLD bullets seated to the lands won't fit the magazine in my 260.
Plus I hear nobody has ever missed with a Creedmoor. You're instantly cool when you own a Creedmoor. When you shoot a 260 you can't claim it's as powerful as a 300 mag. Nobody will really care about your 260 no matter how good it shoots.

But...if you really want that 3000 fps velocity like you mentioned you should just go with a long action or a magnum.