500 yard rig

[paphil]

I put a Hart barrel in 22-243 with a 1in 8 twist on a Sendero short action. Been shooting 80 bergers and 75 A-Max and am really happy with it . I shot a .33 group at 300 yards and got almost 500 groundhogs with it last summer with 20 of them over 800 yards. one right at 1000. Got my first one this year last week at 887 yards with 2 min wind . The BC on those 80 g bergers is almost double the 55g but the wind is still the big problem. Just gota learn to believe the numbers and keep practicing.!!

 

[longrangeshooter1]

I put a Hart barrel in 22-243 with a 1in 8 twist on a Sendero short action. Been shooting 80 bergers and 75 A-Max and am really happy with it . I shot a .33 group at 300 yards and got almost 500 groundhogs with it last summer with 20 of them over 800 yards. one right at 1000. Got my first one this year last week at 887 yards with 2 min wind . The BC on those 80 g bergers is almost double the 55g but the wind is still the big problem. Just gota learn to believe the numbers and keep practicing.!!

What kind of damage is that 22.243 doin on them chucks I bet it does a number on them

 

[VarmintGuy]

SBruce: Hmmm.... it appears you are NOT comparing apples to apples here!
Your quote:

"The 204 doesn't impress me (for Wyoming winds anyway) unless it's shooting 40 grn bullets at close to 4000'/sec. Factory ammo specs and ballistics with lighter bullets aren't that impressive, and show it falling to 2nd place ballistically. The 22-250 will push a 40 at close to 4000'/sec, just burns more powder doing it. The 20 cal 40 will have a higher BC though.

22-250 shooting 55's or 60's at 3700 (which a 14 should do) is tough to beat at 500, especially when wind is involved".

End of your quote:


Now let me give a FAIRER comparison between the 204 Ruger and the 22-250 Remington if you don't mind!
I simply refer YOU to the 2,009 Remington Arms and Ammunition catalog page 92!
And the reason I am refering you here is because the Remington folks are unbiased and they are not comparing HOT loads in one caliber to more standard pressure loads in the other caliber.
Simply refer to the factory ballistics/trajectories for the 204 Ruger vs. the 22-250 Remington!
The 204 Ruger in all factory offerings shoots flatter out at 500 yards than any offering for the 22-250 Remington - flatter by up to 12" as you will see when you "compare"!
Then take a closer look at the drop charts - the 204 Ruger gets this done while being zeroed at 200 (two hundred) yards while comparing itself to the 22-250 Remington which is zeroed at 250 (two hundred and fifty!) yards!!!!
Sounds like the 204 Ruger with any Remington loading has a much further "hold on fur" range than does the 22-250 Remington.
Do you follow my comparison/reality here?
The 204 Ruger MAY take second place to SOME cartridge (you don't specify what cartridge you think the 204 Ruger is "second place to") but it is NOT the 22-250 Remington!
I have been shooting the wonderful 22-250 Remington since day one (back in 1965 IIRC) and I have also been shooting the 204 Ruger since its "day one" - I now own and Hunt with 5 Rifles in caliber 204 Ruger - I know what the 204 Ruger can do!
And I currently own and Hunt with 7 Rifles in caliber 22-250 Remington!
I would appreciate everyone using fair comparisons when "comparing!
I contend the Remington (and after all THEY legitimized the 22-250 Remington) folks have and display a fairer comparison than you do.
As much as I enjoy and admire the 22-250 Remington the 204 Ruger is superior to it in so many ways!
ESPECIALLY at 500 yards and under!
ESPECIALLY when shooting Prairie Dogs!
I know - I use them both - extensively.
My latest Nosler book shows fastest maximum loadings for the 22-250 Remington and 60 grain bullets to be 3,600 F.P.S. - again your comparison IS NOT apples to apples.
Long live the wonderful 204 Ruger!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

 

[SAVAGE22-243AI]

gun)Iuse .204, .223, 22-250, 22-250 A.I., 22-243 A.I for many years. The .204 is gone due to reloading cost and didn't do much better than max out .223, both of them have trouble bucking the wind past 250yds. The 22-250 pumped up to 4150fps with 40 grains is fun out to 400yds or so. Then some 52 SMK's did the trick. The the 22-250 A.I. cranked up to 4400fps with 40 grain V-Max and 4250fps with 50 V-max are great out to 500 to 600yds. Then we use the 22-243 A.I. with 75 Grain A-Max pushing 3650fps or 35 grain V-Max running 5600fps.........The 75 V-Max worked for me for my 1151yd PD kill.


I gave up the .204, only use .223 in a 14in T/C Contender now, 22-250 A.I. and the 22-243 A.I.
The Savage 22-250 gave me 7100 rounds out of factory barrel, the 22-243 A.I. gives me right at 2500 yds per barrel, now on third barrel since 1997.
If I had to choose only one gun ........22-243 A.I. , it is like never having to miss a shot with this rifle. A Savage 12 Action with Douglas XX heavy barrel fixed up by Fred Moreo of Sharp Shooters supply, has Richards Micro fit thumb hole wildcat laminated stock weighted, rig weighs 16lbs with a Pentax 8-32x50 lightseeker. I see every hit through scope!
Forget the charts, Just remember which caliber only calls for one Prairie Dog over and 1/2 high at 700 yds.

 

[SBruce]

SBruce: Hmmm.... it appears you are NOT comparing apples to apples here!
Your quote:

"The 204 doesn't impress me (for Wyoming winds anyway) unless it's shooting 40 grn bullets at close to 4000'/sec. Factory ammo specs and ballistics with lighter bullets aren't that impressive, and show it falling to 2nd place ballistically. The 22-250 will push a 40 at close to 4000'/sec, just burns more powder doing it. The 20 cal 40 will have a higher BC though.

22-250 shooting 55's or 60's at 3700 (which a 14 should do) is tough to beat at 500, especially when wind is involved".

End of your quote:


Now let me give a FAIRER comparison between the 204 Ruger and the 22-250 Remington if you don't mind!
I simply refer YOU to the 2,009 Remington Arms and Ammunition catalog page 92!
And the reason I am refering you here is because the Remington folks are unbiased and they are not comparing HOT loads in one caliber to more standard pressure loads in the other caliber.
Simply refer to the factory ballistics/trajectories for the 204 Ruger vs. the 22-250 Remington!
The 204 Ruger in all factory offerings shoots flatter out at 500 yards than any offering for the 22-250 Remington - flatter by up to 12" as you will see when you "compare"!
Then take a closer look at the drop charts - the 204 Ruger gets this done while being zeroed at 200 (two hundred) yards while comparing itself to the 22-250 Remington which is zeroed at 250 (two hundred and fifty!) yards!!!!
Sounds like the 204 Ruger with any Remington loading has a much further "hold on fur" range than does the 22-250 Remington.
Do you follow my comparison/reality here?
The 204 Ruger MAY take second place to SOME cartridge (you don't specify what cartridge you think the 204 Ruger is "second place to") but it is NOT the 22-250 Remington!
I have been shooting the wonderful 22-250 Remington since day one (back in 1965 IIRC) and I have also been shooting the 204 Ruger since its "day one" - I now own and Hunt with 5 Rifles in caliber 204 Ruger - I know what the 204 Ruger can do!
And I currently own and Hunt with 7 Rifles in caliber 22-250 Remington!
I would appreciate everyone using fair comparisons when "comparing!
I contend the Remington (and after all THEY legitimized the 22-250 Remington) folks have and display a fairer comparison than you do.
As much as I enjoy and admire the 22-250 Remington the 204 Ruger is superior to it in so many ways!
ESPECIALLY at 500 yards and under!
ESPECIALLY when shooting Prairie Dogs!
I know - I use them both - extensively.
My latest Nosler book shows fastest maximum loadings for the 22-250 Remington and 60 grain bullets to be 3,600 F.P.S. - again your comparison IS NOT apples to apples.
Long live the wonderful 204 Ruger!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Well Varmint Guy,

First of all, I was comparing factory velocities and right out of the Nightforce ballistic program. Yes, 3700 with 60's is probably hot for most 22-250's, but 55's at 3700 is not unrealistic at all.......I am shooting 3750 with a 55 Berger myself, and that's not a MAX load. Said program shows the Federal Premium 204 with 32 Nosler BT going 4030'/sec. Same program shows the Hornady Varmint 22-250 with 50 V-Max going 3800'/sec. Same program also shows the Nosler Custom 22-250 going 3850 with a 50 grn ballistic tip. Some loadings show the 20 cal 32's going 4200, but not all.

2nd, I was referring more so to wind drift than drops..........Did I once say flatter shooting or less drop??................NO, I didn't. I did mention wind twice however. ****, even pushing the 32 V-Max at 4200'/sec.....it drifts more than the 55 V-Max at 3700, again based on the ballistic program at 500 yds. Don't just take my word for it. Anyone with any ballistic knowledge knows that faster is usually flatter, especially under 500 yds. There is no argument there. You're preaching to the choir by saying how much flatter the screamers will shoot.

The ballistic program shows the underlined above loads to be basically equal in drop at 500 yds, When zeroed at 100. It also shows the 22-250 to have 4.5" less drift in a 10 mph crosswind.

In regards to the 204; I did mention "Unless it's shooting 40 grn bullets", I admit that the 40's at 3700 or faster look impressive ballistically. I also mentioned that the 20 caliber 40 should have a higher BC than the 22 caliber 40. Anyone with any ballistic knowlege also knows that BC is the biggest helper when it comes to wind drift. I don't own a 204, but I know a few guys that have em. They all pretty much agree that they don't quite compete with the 22-250 in the wind department.

I compared 7 different factory 204 loads to 7 different factory 22-250 loads. The fastest 32 grn 204 loads (at 4225) still drift more than nearly all of the 50 grn loads in 22-250 (at 3800), maybe only a couple inches at 500, but they still drift more according to the program.

Go right ahead and love the 204, I won't hold that against you. I would also appreciate you allowing me to have my opinion (which was based on real numbers that I did in fact research before posting), and not make false claims that I didn't compare correctly, or imply that I was comparing handloads to factory ammo.

Hell, I may even someday give the 204 a shot, but it will be with a twist designed to shoot the 39 and 40 grn or heavier bullets.

 

[yobuck]

one 5 day prairie dog hunt certainly dosent make me an expert on the subject.
god willing i'll be making another trip this year.
being an eastern hunter ive had experience with groundhogs. also about 40 years experience long range deer hunting.
holding for wind is something im very familiar with. it does make it easier when you get follow up shots.
hunting a prairie dog town is a little different in my opinion.
shots are at many different angles covering up to possibly a 180 deg. ark.
a dog standing over his hole will usually give you 1 shot. a 4" miss due to wind and its over. next shot is in a completly different direction where the same thing could happen.
i quickly found i was more succesful with heavier bullets.
i could care less about what some program says is best cartridge or bullet.
ill not be taking anything less than 50 gr. bullets on my next trip.

as for 6mms on large game, location and type of terrain as well as distance are certainly things to consider.
i will admitt to being very conservative as to what i consider acceptable.
some of that comes from watching animals walk off after being hit.
id rather be overgunned than undergunned or even marjionaly gunned.

 

[Trickymissfit]

500 yards, I'd be thinking a 6mm something with at least a 1:9 twist barrel
gary

 

[SAVAGE22-243AI]

Go PD huntiing in SD with a 10-20mph cross wind, aim dead on at center of mound at 500yds and shoot the .204 .223 22-250 all maxed out with 32 to 40 grain v-max bullets. Then tell us which one drifted the most. Real world rules. Heavy bullets work great if you have the time to wait for them to hit the target.

One cool observation on bullet retained velocity and penetration is to shoot a bowling ball at 1000 yds with any caliber rifle you want. Which caliber will shoot through the ball at that range?
Fred Moreo told me about this test in 1997

The only caliber to date I found that will go all the way through and not move the ball is the 22-243 A.I. with 47.4 grs of Rel. #19 and the 75gr A-Max bullet.
We have tried almost every cal. available to us.
50 cal fmj, 30 cal fmj, 7mm, 6mm, lots of different guns and ammo.

The only reason for 50 gr bullet in 22-250 was the sale price and the slap they make when the hit. gun)

This is fun...................!

 

[SBruce]

Go PD huntiing in SD with a 10-20mph cross wind, aim dead on at center of mound at 500yds and shoot the .204 .223 22-250 all maxed out with 32 to 40 grain v-max bullets. Then tell us which one drifted the most. Real world rules. Heavy bullets work great if you have the time to wait for them to hit the target.

One cool observation on bullet retained velocity and penetration is to shoot a bowling ball at 1000 yds with any caliber rifle you want. Which caliber will shoot through the ball at that range?
Fred Moreo told me about this test in 1997

The only caliber to date I found that will go all the way through and not move the ball is the 22-243 A.I. with 47.4 grs of Rel. #19 and the 75gr A-Max bullet.
We have tried almost every cal. available to us.
50 cal fmj, 30 cal fmj, 7mm, 6mm, lots of different guns and ammo.

The only reason for 50 gr bullet in 22-250 was the sale price and the slap they make when the hit. gun)

This is fun...................!

Not to hyjack this thread, I think Longrangeshooter 1 has picked a good chambering for long range chucks and deer with the 6-284. 22 caliber isn't legal for deer in Wyoming.

SAVAGE22-243AI....... I am with you. In fact, next build is going to be a 22-250 AI to 22-243 class and set up for 70-80 grn bullets. I would really like to shoot the 75 A-Max, and have already talked with the smith about it some.

Go PD huntiing in SD with a 10-20mph cross wind, aim dead on at center of mound at 500yds and shoot the .204 .223 22-250 all maxed out with 32 to 40 grain v-max bullets. Then tell us which one drifted the most. Real world rules.

I don't need to go to SD to do this I live right smack dab in between 2 different prarie dog towns. I can shoot them anywhere from 50 yds to 900 yds right off my driveway. I can set up right on my front porch and shoot from 1000 out to 1500 at a different town. Lots of people besides myself shoot here, and when the wind picks up or gets gusty; out come the bigger cartridges and heavier bullets. Some will stay with the little 223's and 204's and a host of others, but they don't get the number of hits that the bigger guns are getting when it's windy. I just wanted real ballistic program numbers for comparison.............Old saying, numbers don't lie but people do.

Back when I shot thousands of rounds a year at prarie dogs, I used 6 different cartridges. 22 magnum rimfire, 223, 22-250, 220 Swift, 6mm rem, 25-06. I shot out the barrels of 3 different guns within the period of just a couple years. Some of the VHA 500, 1000 and 1500 yd club members did it right here on my property. When the winds pick up, out come the big boys with heavier bullets. The VHA members I am speaking of did their magic with 6mm's of one sort or another.

I can't wait for the mud to dry up so I can get out to some of the other less educated towns and test out my new 6 Long Dasher!!

 

[SAVAGE22-243AI]

I will let you shoot my 22-243 A.I. and the 22-250 A.I.'s if my brother and I can shoot at your place in May sometime this year.
I am on my 3ed barrel on the 22-243 A.I. and 2nd barrel on 22-250 A.I.'s

My long shot is 1151 yds with the 22-243 A.I. and 1008 yds with 22-250
256 yds with 22 LR with iron sights (luck), and 356 yds with 22 mag and scope, 200 yds with 17HMR and 110 yds with 22 LR pistol. The best is 540 yds with .223 T/C Contender 14" and 4X scope. But did catch one alive with shirt and took back to bench for others to see.

VHA member, NAHC member, NRA member, have hunter safety for Missouri.

.204 or 22-250, always take the 22-250, we shoot dear here with them.

 

[SBruce]

I will let you shoot my 22-243 A.I. and the 22-250 A.I.'s if my brother and I can shoot at your place in May sometime this year.
I am on my 3ed barrel on the 22-243 A.I. and 2nd barrel on 22-250 A.I.'s

PM me when you get a chance, I'd like to talk about those two shooters. We can discuss timeframe's too. I am always on call, and never know for sure when I'll get time off to shoot. Some guys from Missouri come out twice a year every year for over 40 some years now. They got rained out last May (end of May if I remember right.) You aren't by chance from the KC or Independance area are you?

That is some good shootin you've done. Congrats. I too am VHA and NRA since the early 90's.

 

[bandit10-4]

PM sent

 

[longrangeshooter1]

Well guys a took the 6mm-284 out today loaded up with 95gr smk goin 3390. Shot a .318 at 100 yards I'm very happy with that since it's windy here and the barrel isn't even broke in yet. Next time I'll take it out to around 400 yards and see what it does.

 

[SBruce]

Well guys a took the 6mm-284 out today loaded up with 95gr smk goin 3390. Shot a .318 at 100 yards I'm very happy with that since it's windy here and the barrel isn't even broke in yet. Next time I'll take it out to around 400 yards and see what it does.

Did you ever get a chance to shoot 400? How'd it do?