460 S&W rifle

[J E Custom]

JE, since I actually authored the straight wall law for Mi, I can tell you the 450BM was legal once the NRC removed the word pistol straight wall from initial proposal which I was in total agreement. The reason it wasn't in original was to eliminate any MI DNR technical arguments from the proposed rule. Simply was stating pistol straight wall in rifle configuration. I would have liked to be more encompassing in the bill but DNR was adamant to prohibit rifles in Zone 3 at all costs. It was unanimous votes in Senate and House that finally got it to the NRC. The removal of pistol was to simplify rule for CO's which I totally agreed with. As result, the 450BM was legal from first day the rule was approved for three year test. It has since been finalized into permanent rule. BT - The 1.8" came from the 460 being allowed in pistol.

It is interesting this rule has been picked up by at least 4 other states. I sent a package to NH not too long ago and it may go there to.
Muddy

Thanks,
Always good to get first hand information. when we looked it up It must have been just purposed and not finalized and we did not want to build something that we couldn't use.

I built My self a 450 bushmaster for my AR 15 because there were no restrictions in Texas.

Question, What was the reasoning for picking straight walled cartridges Instead of bottle necked cartridges ?

J E CUSTOM

 

[Muddyboots]

JE,
The reason for the calibers was simple; ask for what is already allowed in handgun but in rifle configuration. Eliminate any chance for technical rejection due to bottleneck calibers etc. This rule would not have passed if we had tried to include other than what was already allowed. The DNR position was solely political without technical basis so if we had added the bottlenecks, they would have had reason which probably would have killed the rule. Maybe some day we can get some additional calibers but we are pleased to get what we have right now.

BTW-The primary purpose of this rule was simply hunter recruitment of youth, women and sustaining older folks (like us!) that really don't like getting slammed by a slug. Put a 12 year old on bench even with reduced recoil 20 ga and one shot they are looking for their phone. Put them on bench with straight wall rifle and they will shoot often, shoot well and actually have fun. Plus parents can afford to buy ammo! I have seen the results and it is gratifying. The hunter recruitment numbers are going down but without this rule, they would go down even further IMHO.
Muddy

 

[J E Custom]

Nice build JE. Did you put muzzle brake on this rifle or is it a very mild 45 cal rifle? Should be great thumper for deer, bear, and hogs.

Yes. I always use hearing protection so the noise isn't a factor. also I am working on different designs for my brakes to try on this rifle and decided to thread the barrel to make it easier to test. The 50+% recoil reduction doesn't hurt ether.

Recoil is brisk but very manageable and allows me to concentrate on other things that can improve accuracy. I am sure the brake will help even more when I switch to 300+grain bullets.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Muddyboots]

I have an Encore with MGM 24" brl .357 Max 1:14 twist that shoots <MOA at 200 yards all day. After I did trigger job on the Encore! Prefer Speer HC 180 at 2200 fps which is decent round out to 200. Buy I still hunt with slug gun that is customized a bitif inside 150 just due to energy and pure knock the snot out of them factor. I reload my own slugs from Rich Knoster SlugsRUs for last 15 years and they shoot same hole at 50 and honest 2" group at 100. 1 1/4 oz slug at 1450 fps is a load that just staggers the crap out of deer. Here is pic from this year, 60 yards and he went maybe 25 staggering and going downhill at same time. 870, Hastings bull barrel, Timney trigger spring upgrade (2.5#) gives this shotgun a nice improvement for slugs.

 

[Blancoalex]

Muddyboots, Nice thick horn buck. That is a nice 870! Can agree that slugs work good. Below is my only slug harvest, it drop this little sow at 100ft in our thick Cedar Brush using this H & R Topper. Only using factory Rem factory 20Ga slugs. I modified the buttstock so that it shoots dead on out to 50 yds using front bead. I carry this gun with birdshot in chamber for rattlesnakes and other critters and a slug is Ranger band on barrel riding just in front of forearm. At 5 1/2 lbs nice carry gun. I joke with people saying it's my $10,000 custom 62 cal. Singleshot rifle . I will have look up slug company you reference.

 

[Wolf76]

JE,
The reason for the calibers was simple; ask for what is already allowed in handgun but in rifle configuration. Eliminate any chance for technical rejection due to bottleneck calibers etc. This rule would not have passed if we had tried to include other than what was already allowed. The DNR position was solely political without technical basis so if we had added the bottlenecks, they would have had reason which probably would have killed the rule. Maybe some day we can get some additional calibers but we are pleased to get what we have right now.

BTW-The primary purpose of this rule was simply hunter recruitment of youth, women and sustaining older folks (like us!) that really don't like getting slammed by a slug. Put a 12 year old on bench even with reduced recoil 20 ga and one shot they are looking for their phone. Put them on bench with straight wall rifle and they will shoot often, shoot well and actually have fun. Plus parents can afford to buy ammo! I have seen the results and it is gratifying. The hunter recruitment numbers are going down but without this rule, they would go down even further IMHO.
Muddy

Just one quick note.... I can't use a rifle to hunt deer in this this limited firearms zone- but I can use my 257 weatherby magnum to kill coyotes in the same area. There is literally no way to reconcile these 2 polar opposite concepts occurring at the same time. Either rifles are safe in a given population density or they are not.

 

[Muddyboots]

JE,
Take a look at Fury Bullets made here in MI. I know quie a few guys shoot them in their 460's. He doesn't have up on his website now but Dennis will normally make to order.

 

[Muddyboots]

Wolf, now you understand the politics of DNR. Exact reason why we would not have been successful if bottlenecks were included even 30/30. So one step at a time. Maybe after years of success it may become an opportunity.

 

[J E Custom]

JE,
Take a look at Fury Bullets made here in MI. I know quie a few guys shoot them in their 460's. He doesn't have up on his website now but Dennis will normally make to order.

Will definitely take a look at them, After running the energy numbers on this load. The energy is over 1,000 fr/lbs more than my 450 bushmaster 2907 ft/lbs and 4067 for the 460 S&W.

Not sure that the FTX will handle it.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Muddyboots]

FYI - He made up a 190 gr for my .357 Max that shoots lights out. I did a jug test with them and the results were perfect.

 

[J E Custom]

Just one quick note.... I can't use a rifle to hunt deer in this this limited firearms zone- but I can use my 257 weatherby magnum to kill coyotes in the same area. There is literally no way to reconcile these 2 polar opposite concepts occurring at the same time. Either rifles are safe in a given population density or they are not.

In Texas there is very little restrictions on what we can use/shoot, But the laws for unsafe shooting/hunting are well in place and enforced because the unsafe part normally falls on the shooters shoulders and is his responsibility.

There are still a few strange rules but not many, And we are good on the assault rifle issue because we don't have any AR 14's

J E CUSTOM

 

[Revolting Peasant]

JE, what make barrel did you go with? Twist?
i am also very interested in how it works with the other calibers! If it is accurate with all, I may have to get one. Sounds like a hoot to pop hogs.
I live not very far from you, by the way. Thanks for the info on an interesting experiment.

 

[meatyrem]

Yes. I always use hearing protection so the noise isn't a factor. also I am working on different designs for my brakes to try on this rifle and decided to thread the barrel to make it easier to test. The 50+% recoil reduction doesn't hurt ether.

Recoil is brisk but very manageable and allows me to concentrate on other things that can improve accuracy. I am sure the brake will help even more when I switch to 300+grain bullets.

J E CUSTOM

JE
My 460 encore is a full 1" dia bull barrel 24" length. I went with full bull as it reduces felt recoil a lot and maybe feels like a 20ga. Made by SSK Industries.

 

[meatyrem]

Wolf, now you understand the politics of DNR. Exact reason why we would not have been successful if bottlenecks were included even 30/30. So one step at a time. Maybe after years of success it may become an opportunity.

I had talked to a gun dealer in lower Michigan and he said (according to dnr) they are going to keep an eye on Indiana as they went full bottleneck rifle a couple years back And the thought was if three years go by without an incident then Michigan may be adopting the same criteria for regulations. Not sure where they are with it as of now. But I haven't heard of anything to date.