.338 Win Mag or .300 Win mag?

[benchracer]

This got my wheels turning so I punched in a 300gr Berger otm at 2400fps for the 338wm which I believe HSM sells as a factory loaded offering and a 230 Berger otm for the 300wm at 2875fps also offered by hsm I believe, into jbm ballistics trajectory calculator. Which I feel is fairly accurate from past experience. At a 1000yds The 300wm was moving 1750 fps and carried 1500ish pounds of energy. Surprising to me was that the Vega was moving out at 1600Fps and carried 1600 pounds of energy. The nod went to the 338 for wind drift by .1 MOA and drop went to the 300 by 9 MOA. Lol I guess if you stick a 400 small block in the front end of a vega it might run just a hair different. Lol if a guy long throated a 30" barrel for the ol 338 vega I wonder if the 300wm could hang??? Looks like to me speeds aren't much different and a heavier bullet may penetrate better. Lol not that I believe a 300gr 338 cal bullet would have trouble penetrating anything with four legs but hey I was a little surprised at the potential of the 338wm. Just food for thought.

Using your numbers, at standard temp and pressure, with the Berger 300 EH and the Berger 230 Hybrid, JBM produced the following:

600 y 300 EH 1823.6 fps 2215.0 ft/lbs 16.7 MOA drop 3.1 MOA drift
230 HYB 2172.7 fps 2410.4 ft/lbs 11.3 MOA drop 2.6 MOA drift

1000y 300 EH 1482.1 fps 1463 ft/lbs 35.7 MOA drop 5.7 MOA drift
230 HYB 1764.6 fps 1590 ft/lbs 24.7 MOA drop 4.9 MOA drift

The .300 Win Mag beats the .338 Win Mag in every category. The gap doesn't narrow, at any point, all the way to 2000 yards.

An .8 MOA difference in wind drift is equivalent to more than 8 inches @ 1000 yards, enough to move a hit out of the vital zone with a small error in making the wind call. 11 MOA @ 1000 yards is more than 9 FEET of difference in drop. That may not matter as much if shooting steel or paper on a known distance range, but it dramatically increases the difficulty for shots in the field, while reducing the room for error in range or wind calls.

 

[FEENIX]

I own and still own both chamberings in question; it is indeed true that the .338 Win Mag is not a hotrod chambering, however, it is in no means a slouch. Having said that, I prefer the .300 Win Mag, esp with the 210/215/230 Berger VLDs.

As far as the case appropriate capacities, there are members here that are pushing the envelope with very good success in pushing the 215/230 Berger VLDs in less than ideal case capacities in .308 Win and .30-06 SPG at 1K+ ranges.

Sully2, something tells me "just because" you're going to end up with the .338 Win Mag --- you behave now you hear. gun)

 

[dkhunt14]

I believe MOA has nothing to do with it. I never knew a deer yet that knew if it was killed with 20 MOA or 25 MOA. If your gun is accurate and your charts are on I feel it doesn't matter. I look for enough energy to kill and accuracy to hit target. Matt

 

[benchracer]

I own and still own both chamberings in question; it is indeed true that the .338 Win Mag is not a hotrod chambering, however, it is in no means a slouch. Having said that, I prefer the .300 Win Mag, esp with the 210/215/230 Berger VLDs.

As far as the case appropriate capacities, there are members here that are pushing the envelope with very good success in pushing the 215/230 Berger VLDs in less than ideal case capacities in .308 Win and .30-06 SPG at 1K+ ranges.

Sully2, something tells me "jut because" you're going to end up with the .338 Win Mag --- you behave now you hear. gun)

I agree that the .338 Win Mag is not a slouch. When I first started coming to LRH, I had this discussion with LongTimeLongRanger. His take at that time was that the .338 Win Mag was at its best with the Barnes 185 grain TTSX to between 700 and 800 yards or the Cutting Edge 225 MTH to 1000 yards. I think that is still true.

Since then, the release of the 215 and 230 Berger Hybrids has taken the .300 Win Mag to an entirely new level. I see it as about the best balanced cartridge one could choose for long range use from a carry weight rifle.

I like my .338's, too. I used to own a .338 Win Mag, but sold it when I got my .375 H&H. I like my H&H better. Still, I have both a .300 Win Mag and a 338-06 AI in process, so I apparently haven't gotten the .338 out of my system yet.

 

[Topshot]

Forget the numbers.
The .338 win mag with 250gn Berger Elite Hunter projectiles will kill better than a
.300 win mag with any bullet.
The .30 cal bullets simply do not expand and do as much damage as the .338 cal bullet at long range.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

I've got both a 300win and 338 win. Both are great for the size casings they are.

My personal 300win is handicapped a bit by the fact that it likes mid weight bullets- I usually run 165 or180 hdy bullets through the rifle. My 338 is a great shooter with 225 hdy or 225 ab's pushed to 2900 fps. Both are more mid range cartridges the way I run them, but I could see where the 300win could turn on with a 200+ grain bullet pushed well.
I usually step up to my 7stw or one of my rums (7 or 300) when I see the potential for a really long shot or it is windy as all get out.

 

[kshunter]

Using your numbers, at standard temp and pressure, with the Berger 300 EH and the Berger 230 Hybrid, JBM produced the following:

600 y 300 EH 1823.6 fps 2215.0 ft/lbs 16.7 MOA drop 3.1 MOA drift
230 HYB 2172.7 fps 2410.4 ft/lbs 11.3 MOA drop 2.6 MOA drift

1000y 300 EH 1482.1 fps 1463 ft/lbs 35.7 MOA drop 5.7 MOA drift
230 HYB 1764.6 fps 1590 ft/lbs 24.7 MOA drop 4.9 MOA drift

The .300 Win Mag beats the .338 Win Mag in every category. The gap doesn't narrow, at any point, all the way to 2000 yards.

An .8 MOA difference in wind drift is equivalent to more than 8 inches @ 1000 yards, enough to move a hit out of the vital zone with a small error in making the wind call. 11 MOA @ 1000 yards is more than 9 FEET of difference in drop. That may not matter as much if shooting steel or paper on a known distance range, but it dramatically increases the difficulty for shots in the field, while reducing the room for error in range or wind calls.

Not sure why we came up with different numbers but lets just use ur numbers. My thought is that I don't pay much attention to drop because we all deal with that and it is easily compensated for. As far as wind goes I was just a little surprised that the 338 running 475fps slower from the starting line was only 8" difference at 1k. Last I don't think there is a critter out there that would notice the difference of 150 or so pounds of energy especially given the fact that the 338 is packing 70gr more lead and more frontal area. I just didn't feel that the 300wm was a hotrod compared to the 338wm. Rather my impression was that the 338 is a sleeper that possibly has some potential. Ie vega with a 400sbc flat tops and mild cam. Probably not the fastest ride around but will no doubt get the job done. Hey I'm a 30cal fan and have shot and continue to load for the 300wm. Just intrigued me a bit.

 

[kshunter]

I see where our numbers differed a bit I used the litz estimated 338 cal. 300vld so I may be using the wrong projectile??

 

[MudRunner2005]

Forget the numbers.
The .338 win mag with 250gn Berger Elite Hunter projectiles will kill better than a
.300 win mag with any bullet.
The .30 cal bullets simply do not expand and do as much damage as the .338 cal bullet at long range.

It "will kill better"??? I'm sorry...But I thought dead was dead, whether you use a .22LR or a .50 BMG...

If by that standard, I guess my little ole 7mm RemMag has barely been killing those deer that just fell over as soon as they were hit.

 

[benchracer]

I see where our numbers differed a bit I used the litz estimated 338 cal. 300vld so I may be using the wrong projectile??

I think that was the original estimate for the first prototype that didn't quite work out and ended up being re-designed as a Hybrid.

 

[Edd]

If you use realistic numbers, using a Berger 250 gr 338 bullet at 2700 FPS and a Berger 215 gr 30 cal at 2850 FPS, there isn't much difference it the ability of the two cartridges. The 338 wins in the energy comparison to 800 yds then the 300 has a slight advantage. The 300 wins in every other comparison but the only significant difference is elevation. If you can compensate for that, pick whichever one is your favorite.

 

[kshunter]

I think that was the original estimate for the first prototype that didn't quite work out and ended up being re-designed as a Hybrid.

Gotcha thats cool! Didn't know that!!

 

[matt_3479]

I personally think the 300 win mag has the advantage. My current load is out of a factory remington 700 xcr tactical and im running the 215 hybrids with a BC of .696 and my current velocity is 2940-2960 FPS still doing some fine tuning. But with velocitys like that it seems to way out shooting the 338 win mag. The more usual velocitys are 2850-2900 and they should still be out doing the 338. win.

As a mid range big game or dangerous game rifle the 338. win is great with a large diameter bullet and decent weight the 210-250 grain bullets i think that caliber is pretty hard to beat. But the 300. win mag with high BC good velocity's, lighter recoiling round i think its pretty hard to beat!

 

[dkhunt14]

I don't shoot a 338 WIN but I run the 300 Berger at 3000 and I hunt with a bunch of guys. We all set up benches and there were three 300 Ultra Mags and my 338. Every deer they shot with the Ultras ran and some went 50 yards. They also missed a lot because they couldn't get through the trees or brush. We were only shooting from 400 to 650 yards. Last year we used my 338 and 4 shots 4 bucks all DRT. By the end of the first week the Ultras disappeared and the owner of the land got his 338-378 out and said you made a believer out of me. I just know the 338 with a 300 Berger hits really hard and it goes through the whitetails. I used to shoot the big 30's but since I got my 338 I love the power it has. The owner won't let the 338's shoot at his steel because even at 1000 yards the 300 grain bullets go through and the 30 wont. Matt