338 win mag, 300 win mag, or 300 weatherby mag?

[X-man]

I agree that the WSM is accurate, but the difference between the WSM and Winchester (if any) will never be seen in the field.

This thread is about a 1000 yard elk cartridge. We need accuracy, but we also need downrange violent bullet performance. The bullets will be heavy and low drag (probably the 230 Berger). Compared to the 300WSM the 300Win can push the 230 a little faster, the 308 Baer even more so. Accuracy will be more than sufficient if the driver is capable.

My other choices are fast 338s.
I chose the fast 338's for their extreme downrange performance.
The 300SMK absolutely smashes game at 1000 yards or so and though I have not tried it the 300Berger is probably right up there in the damage department.

 

[Bart B]

I agree that the WSM is accurate, but the difference between the WSM and Winchester (if any) will never be seen in the field.

This thread is about a 1000 yard elk cartridge. We need accuracy, but we also need downrange violent bullet performance. The bullets will be heavy and low drag (probably the 230 Berger). Compared to the 300WSM the 300Win can push the 230 a little faster, the 308 Baer even more so. Accuracy will be more than sufficient if the driver is capable.

My other choices are fast 338s.
I chose the fast 338's for their extreme downrange performance.
The 300SMK absolutely smashes game at 1000 yards or so and though I have not tried it the 300Berger is probably right up there in the damage department.

The .300 RUM will shoot a given bullet out faster than either the .300 Win Mag or WSM case. But at the expense of a shorter barrel life.

Folks shooting the .300 Win Mag in prone competition got about 1000 rounds of accurate barrel life then accuracy degraded by about 50%. That opens up those 100 yard 1/4 MOA groups to 3/8ths MOA. And the 1 MOA groups at 1000 yards to 1.5 MOA. No longer good for competition. The .300 Win Mag holds the NRA any rifle 20-shot scope prone record with 19 rounds going in the 10 inch inner scoring ring and 1 about an inch out.

In a recent test of military snipers and top ranked long range competitors testing cartridges for the US Army to use for their sniper rifle, the .300 Win Mag out performed the .338 Lapua Mag for both first shot accuracy as well as many shot test groups from 1000 to 1500 yards. But the US Army must have had an ego to satisfy as the chose the .338 Lap Mag. for an enemy knocker-downer.

 

[Bart B]

I find the whole rimmed case stuff to be complete and utter ********. My 7mm rem mag shoots .3 inch groups all day long. I just gotta do my job.

Well then, you are the only person on earth than can shoot a 7 Rem Mag into the same size groups all the time. That's pretty remarkable considering all the stuff needed to do that. And especially for the two shots furthest apart in all those groups that always measure .3 inch between their centers.

Before your start blasting blasphemy in my direction on my above comments, take a break and think about what you're claiming about your .3 inch groups all day long.

 

[banjo318]

Can i say flame war? Anyways, ive decided to get either a 7mm rsaum, 7mm wsm, or 264 winchester. All of them provide enough energy with berger bullets to take an elk, but also dont recoil as bad as the big 338's or 300's. Im really thinking about a 264 win mag.

 

[X-man]

The .300 RUM will shoot a given bullet out faster than either the .300 Win Mag or WSM case. But at the expense of a shorter barrel life.

Folks shooting the .300 Win Mag in prone competition got about 1000 rounds of accurate barrel life then accuracy degraded by about 50%. That opens up those 100 yard 1/4 MOA groups to 3/8ths MOA. And the 1 MOA groups at 1000 yards to 1.5 MOA. No longer good for competition. The .300 Win Mag holds the NRA any rifle 20-shot scope prone record with 19 rounds going in the 10 inch inner scoring ring and 1 about an inch out.

In a recent test of military snipers and top ranked long range competitors testing cartridges for the US Army to use for their sniper rifle, the .300 Win Mag out performed the .338 Lapua Mag for both first shot accuracy as well as many shot test groups from 1000 to 1500 yards. But the US Army must have had an ego to satisfy as the chose the .338 Lap Mag. for an enemy knocker-downer.

I like the 300Rum too, but after 2 barrels I found it was just plain cranky trying to find a stable high performance load that justified its existence over the plain old 300Win. With modest performance loads the 300Ultra was as accurate as any rifle I have ever seen....Others claim different, but most of them don't shoot it any more either...Funny how that goes?

I like my big 338's, but I love my 300Wins.
Living in BC I shoot big animal in big country...The 338 hits big animals harder no doubt in my mind and this is why I prefer the 338 at long range.
As long as the bullet expands in the right place either will do the job.

 

[X-man]

Can i say flame war? Anyways, ive decided to get either a 7mm rsaum, 7mm wsm, or 264 winchester. All of them provide enough energy with berger bullets to take an elk, but also dont recoil as bad as the big 338's or 300's. Im really thinking about a 264 win mag.

I don't see a flame war...just a discussion about what is reasonable.

I don't like the 246 Win for 1000yd elk..Here is reasoning.
To get a bullet that will perform at 1000 it is going to have to be a soft Berger VLD. Even then you end up with (rough numbers) 1500 fps and 750fpe....Pretty weak in my honest opinion...Especially when you consider how darn small that little bullet starts out. If the animal is broadside the bullet will do its work...sure. What if it turns a bit and you hit the shoulder bone square? What if you have to shoot again at the south end of an upset and wounded North bound bull? The Berger wont make it...period.
Now what happens if you see that big bull at 50 yards with that fragile little bullet going mach 10?
Bad things unless he is dead broadside.

The 7WSM is a far better choice.

 

[bigngreen]

The 7mm with a 180 Berger would be better than a 264 with a 140gr for elk at 1k, the 140 Berger will do it but your window is small at 1k and better from about 800 yards in though the 6.5x284 has proven good on deer out to the 1k mark and the 264 will out run it easy, we are shooting a 160gr 6.5 Matrix VLD that will turn the tables though and make an easy 1k elk round with a 264. My 270 WSM shoots right with or a touch better than the 7WSM and I have no issues whackn an elk at 1k or 50 yards with the same bullet. The 140 6.5 Berger is not a soft bullet by the way!!

 

[banjo318]

I don't see a flame war...just a discussion about what is reasonable.

I don't like the 246 Win for 1000yd elk..Here is reasoning.
To get a bullet that will perform at 1000 it is going to have to be a soft Berger VLD. Even then you end up with (rough numbers) 1500 fps and 750fpe....Pretty weak in my honest opinion...Especially when you consider how darn small that little bullet starts out. If the animal is broadside the bullet will do its work...sure. What if it turns a bit and you hit the shoulder bone square? What if you have to shoot again at the south end of an upset and wounded North bound bull? The Berger wont make it...period.
Now what happens if you see that big bull at 50 yards with that fragile little bullet going mach 10?
Bad things unless he is dead broadside.

The 7WSM is a far better choice.

Actually it has just under 1000 fpe at 1000 yards... Im going with a 243wssm for 100% It will be limited to berger bullets and 1000 yard deer, and 6-700 yard elk. at 700 yards it has 950 fpe. But i want to have a very low recoil rifle too. Ive considered the 25wsssm, but it just doesent have the high bc bullets out there that make it perform any better than the 243wsssm.

 

[barnesuser28]

Actually it has just under 1000 fpe at 1000 yards... Im going with a 243wssm for 100% It will be limited to berger bullets and 1000 yard deer, and 6-700 yard elk. at 700 yards it has 950 fpe. But i want to have a very low recoil rifle too. Ive considered the 25wsssm, but it just doesent have the high bc bullets out there that make it perform any better than the 243wsssm.

So 243 wssm today, whats your choice going to be tomorrow? All in fun.

 

[bigngreen]

So 243 wssm today, whats your choice going to be tomorrow? All in fun.

No freaking kidding!!! How does a guy go from a 338 Win for long range elk to a 243 WSSM, this hurts my brain!!

 

[barnesuser28]

No freaking kidding!!! How does a guy go from a 338 Win for long range elk to a 243 WSSM, this hurts my brain!!

It was first the 338 win mag, then 7mm rem, then 340 weatherby, then 300 win mag, then either 7mm wsm, 7mm rsaum, or 264 win, and now 243 wssm. You change your mind more than my Mom when she is picking paint colors. LOL

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

So 243 wssm today, whats your choice going to be tomorrow? All in fun.

He'd better have someone with a bigger stick with him if he actually wants to knock elk down with that toy. Unless he's looking at veal, that is.
I barely feel my 25wssm is a good whitetail rifle even with 120 bt's at 2900+ fps or 100's going over 3300 fps. I try not to pop mule deer with anything under a 270; usually I'm using a big 7mm or 300win on the bouncy ones.

 

[bigngreen]

He'd better have someone with a bigger stick with him if he actually wants to knock elk down with that toy. Unless he's looking at veal, that is.
I barely feel my 25wssm is a good whitetail rifle even with 120 bt's at 2900+ fps or 100's going over 3300 fps. I try not to pop mule deer with anything under a 270; usually I'm using a big 7mm or 300win on the bouncy ones.

Seen a pile of elk killed very cleanly with a 243 but at the ranges he's thinking I would even be a little hard pressed to send it. Killed a few nice elk with a 120gr from a 250-3000AI easy peasy but nothing over a few hundred yards.

 

[X-man]

Actually it has just under 1000 fpe at 1000 yards... Im going with a 243wssm for 100% It will be limited to berger bullets and 1000 yard deer, and 6-700 yard elk. at 700 yards it has 950 fpe. But i want to have a very low recoil rifle too. Ive considered the 25wsssm, but it just doesent have the high bc bullets out there that make it perform any better than the 243wsssm.

243Wssm....You've never shot an elk?

Not all elk are small and stand perfectly broadside for your shot....and not all shots go perfectly.
If you can't handle a 7WSM/180 Bergers what are you doing?

I dont understand some guys thinking...
My buddy has chronic health problems not limited but to include Hodgkin's disease and Cystic fibrosis (sp?) and he shoots a 338Ultra...he just runs a big brake on it!