338 win mag bear bullet

[Capt RB]

I have a question for you experienced brown bear hunters - if all you had was a 7 RM or 300 wsm, would it be worth purchasing a 375 or 338 for a single brown bear hunt? Or would you just load the one of the bullets recommended in this thread and go for it?

I wouldn't want a rebated rim on a dangerous game hunt. They feed reliably most of the time. In a panic situation you might do something that makes it not feed or extract. Think about that. It's a one in a million type thing. Having been born on Friday the 13th I know it's more like 1 in 3 it will happen don't ask.
A 338 is alot easier to repurpose than a 375. It isn't terrible to hunt whitetails with a 338. A 375 is a big step up from a 338 win. That being said a 375 Ruger would be on my list because I have a 338 winny already. I've had a few 375H&H's come through my hands. All shot well. After the high praise from Wild Rose I looked into 375 R a bunch more and I'd get one if I had a big bear or Africa trip on the horizon.

 

[Forcedoutage]

.338 diameter bullets with 200-250 will do just fine on brown bear at 338 WM speeds and above but I agree a partition, accubond or A-Frame would be the choice. I load 230 Hawk and 225 North Fork in my 340 WBY but for factory ammo the above is fine. Hendershots has a decent selection of bullets they sell in their ammo. If they don't handload it would be a good place to look. I have shot their ammo in several calibers.

 

[86alaskan]

FIGJAM, always good when you've got a nice reason to buy another gun. I'd look for a used ruger guide gun in 375 ruger. definitely great bear medicine. If you load, you can step down in power and use it for hogs, elk, deer or whatever. Plenty of lighter weight 375 bullets out there. I think you can even get a nice light, like 235gr, barnes that would make a great deer and elk round.

 

[Rich Coyle]

I wouldn't want a rebated rim on a dangerous game hunt. They feed reliably most of the time. In a panic situation you might do something that makes it not feed or extract. Think about that. It's a one in a million type thing. Having been born on Friday the 13th I know it's more like 1 in 3 it will happen don't ask.

The only failures I had were with control round feed. I would trust a rebated rim over them anytime.

 

[FIGJAM]

The only failures I had were with control round feed. I would trust a rebated rim over them anytime.

You got me curious now - most people I have talked to about this say controlled round feed is the way to go...None of my bolt guns are controlled round feed, so I have zero experience - what happened?

 

[Cold Trigger Finger]

Just my opinion that comparing a black bear to a big Brown bear or even a mountain grizzly is really akin to comparing whitetail to elk, I know the black bears and grizzly I've been around I would not put into the same class!!

Sometimes, possibly most of the time. Years ago a very good friend and his gf were walking up a logging road on Revilla Is. ( the island Ketchikan is on) .
He walked up to the edge of a turn out real close to a small muskeg.
He was packing his 375 H&H loaded with 300 gr Silvertip factory ammo. 24" Sako factory barrel.
Before the days when we all had chronographs .
He heard a small noise in the brush . and stepped up onto a log from where he had been standing on the turnout. Nearly at his feet a black bear raised his head and looked at him. My friend yelled at the bear, it didn't leave immediately(instantly) . So he shot it just under the chin into its chest. The bear vanished. But hadn't fell down , It split at warp speed across the skeg and into the timber. As it ran it was roaring and carrying on. My friend walked back into the road to his gf who was packing one of his M16s ( he used to have a number of machine guns) . The bear ran back out into the muskeg and he shot it thru the shoulders with the 375 . That shot dumped and killed it.
That black bear was about 6 1/2' sq.
Tho he can't explain why the bear ran off the way it did after getting pegged in the chest from about 5' distance. They both verified it with pics that I've seen.
Sometimes bears don't react the way a person plans.
But as a rule, grizzly's and brown bear are tougher than black bear.

 

[ROGER FOSTER]

Having hunted big game 40+ years and guided 10 of those years here in Southeast Alaska, I would say that you cannot go wrong with a Barnes-X bullet. That would include all versions (TSX, TTSX, flat base, boat tail, etc.) The weight retention is usually 95% or better no matter what you hit. 338 or larger caliber for browns and 210-250 grain bullets, heavier = better.

Additionally, we always told the clients to hit them in the front shoulder first on a broadside shot. That will allow for vitals to be hit while breaking them down, tentatively preventing them to get in the brush. We also told them to be ready for a quick follow up shot - or expect our 460 Weatherby (450-500 gr TSX) to file a "report".

The Barnes-X bullets never fail on any big game.

I shoot a 338 edge with 300 gr Berger bullets, have shot a 2 big black bears and they drop within 2 yards.
I put in for a peninsula brown bear hunt in Alaska this year, what's your thoughts on shooting Berger 300 gr bullets
2825 fps 200 yards 4425 Kinetic energy ?

 

[Pdvdh]

I shoot a 338 edge with 300 gr Berger bullets, have shot a 2 big black bears and they drop within 2 yards.
I put in for a peninsula brown bear hunt in Alaska this year, what's your thoughts on shooting Berger 300 gr bullets
2825 fps 200 yards 4425 Kinetic energy ?

Bad idea. Some Berger advocate may luv you for suggesting it, and cheer lead your suggestion. Here's one experience shared by another LRH member:

"Sorry for a late reply, busy weekend and football Sunday.

Well, I have never shared this publicly before tonight. I'm the guy that shot a doe Antelope and the bullet never entered the vitals that I could see. Before I explain I need to back up a little.

When Berger came out with the 300g Berger I bought 250 of them. Shortly after we heard about the slump nose problem, so I did not shoot them. They are still in my cabinet as a matter of fact. A little while later they came out with the OTM's and I purchased 250. Don't remember what year that was?

In 2014 I used them exclusively that year. The Doe was 800+yards out. Wind was full value 8-10mph. When I shot the doe went straight down. My 12 year old grandson and I drove my utv up to what we thought was dead animal. When I pulled up next to it she picked up her head. When I got out to finish it, she tried to get up and run but could not. She actually made it 1/2 way into my ranger then fell out. I could not believe what I was seeing and all this in front of my grandson!

When I gutted it, I was looking for damage to the vitals and could not find any damage at all! The bullet hit her square in the shoulder. Yea, yea I know! I was aiming for crease but was off about 3" hitting shoulder squarely. When we skinned it, looked like bomb went off on entrance side. It was blood shot badly all the up to head. Don't think we saved any meat from that front quarter. Opposite side was perfectly fine?"

This guy shoots a lot of animals each year. Last I knew he was shooting 285gr ELD-M bullets for long range from his 338 Lapua Imp. He was preparing for an Alaska brown bear hunt in 2017 or 2018. He purchased some Swift A-Frame bullets.

Of course the reason he hadn't shared his story before was fear of counterattack and retribution from the Berger devoted on this Forum. Happened many times before. Will happen many more times in the future. Good chance it will happen now, in response to this very Post.

Brown bear are bigger than doe antelope. Your choice, unless your guide refuses to hunt with you. I wouldn't, if that's the bullet you insisted on using.

 

[memtb]

Last year I got the opportunity to help guide in the Bristol Bay area of Alaska for brown bear. It was a great experience and it's about all I think about now. Headed back in August 19. Our first client we had was shooting a 338 win mag and I thought nothing of it. Well after poor performance on a brown bear at 100+/- yards, tracking it into an alder patch and having to finish her with a 375 Ruger mag. Skip ahead a couple days to bear number two. Shot at about the same distance, bear takes off into the alders never to be seen again, ending the hunt for the client, costing him a trophy fee and really upsetting me. I don't like to leave a wounded animal in the field. It got me thinking is 338wm enough gun? It wasn't till the next day we flew out of camp I saw his bullet selection, 200 grain sst....I'm guessing here is our problem. Caliber is discussed with the client but never bullet selection. No, as a helper/assistant and now apprentice working towards my guide license its not my place to suggest what bullet to use. With the clients we have, alot of them have little hunting experience, they go buy a fancy gun in a large caliber and the first box of bullets they see and go for it.

So going forth in preparation for the bear hunts we are now wanting to suggest bullets for the clients to use for a given caliber. 338 and 375 are by far the most used. I was thinking Nosler partition? but after that I don't really know. Thought about Barnes, but will they expand at close range? Would like some more input on 338 win mag, 375 hh and 375 Ruger. Factory ammo, I doubt any of these guys reload.

Hope you made it through my long/short story and don't bash on me......I'm far from a writer!

I realize that I'm late for the party on this topic, but my 2 cents worth! My wife uses (exclusively) a .338 WM with 225 Barnes TTSX's @2950 muzzle velocity. She has cleanly taken everything from Pronghorn Antelope, to Moose, a small bear at 378 (measured) an elk at 30 yards, to an elk at 400 (also measured), it has performed very well in all instances....with no bullets recovered The only time (very rare) a second shot was required, was when the first shot was not properly placed. She (I) would not hesitate to use this on a large bear, Buffalo, or large African plains game! memtb

 

[Mike 338]

Seems to me the guide or outfitter should definitely have something to say about what fodder is used on dangerous game, since they're the one's who have to go wading into the alders after wounded animals.

 

[Akhunting]

Seems to me the guide or outfitter should definitely have something to say about what fodder is used on dangerous game, since they're the one's who have to go wading into the alders after wounded animals.

Many do and some just assume/hope a guy paying many thousands for a hunt will use an appropriate bullet for the game. I have one guide that will not allow Nosler BTs or Bergers for black bear or mountain goat. Another one does not like or recommend any tipped bullets period, but does not force the issue. This year a guy did not follow recommendations and figured his deer load (SST ) would work just fine and lost a nice coastal black.

If it were my rodeo, I would want to vet and accept/veto any bullet choice. IMO any good bonded or heavy built bullet should be fine, and BC should not even feed into the equation. I know this is a LR forum, but from a guides perspective LR for a bear is 300 yards. As a guide I don't care if you can hit a golf ball at 1000 yards, I would be happy if you could hit a bear at 300 or less and kill it!

 

[Cold Trigger Finger]

I don't really notice a lick of difference between the 338 and 375s on deer . and I've killed almost 50 Sitka Blacktails with the 2 carts combined.
The only reason I got started with the 338 was Ruger came out with the M77 Mk2 in stainless/synthetic.
Pretty awesome rifle for not much money.
Had the 375 Ruger Alaskan been available. Or a stainless Model 70 in 375 H&H. I probably would never have owned a 338 .

 

[Cold Trigger Finger]

IIRC it was Master Guide Andy Runyon that stated a bear guides rifle's bullet . Needed/must produce around 5 feet of penetration in a bear. Reguardless of how big or close the bear was.
Now I know the issue here is a clients rifle. And the single most important thing is to make an accurate shot. However, once the first bullet hits the bear , all the discussion and debate kinda don't matter. All that matters is that the bullet does everything necessary to produce a quick , clean kill.
Frangible bullets have never been very satisfactory in producing that.
Tough, expanding bullets have done a consistent job of doing that.
Mr Runyon used what would today be considered fragile bullets going as fast as humanly possible in his 41 caliber bear rifles. Until the Barnes X bullet came out. Which incidentally happened on a hunt he was guiding Randy Brooks on.
After that he shot the 300 gr Barnes X @ around 2900 fps from his 416 Rem mag.
I have absolutely flattened brown bear with that bullet @ 2850 fps.
I know most client hunters aren't big bore rifle enthusiasts. And the 416 or 458 is not what this thread is about.
For a bear guide nowadays. I could think up really no better rifle and cart than a 416 Ruger Guide Gun !
Get to know and be best buddies with that rifle and most problems dealing with bears will be resolved immediately.
As we now have GS Custom bullets and Cutting Edge bullets available along with the 350 gr TTSX . Its kinda hard to imagine anything better.

A 225 gr TTSX factory load in 338 is a truly great all around load for a client hunter. A 270 gr Hornady 375 Ruger factory load is a Very good bear load and good for all around. A friend here has killed a number of moose and caribou with it. I've seen much worse blood shock from 06 s and similar carts.
I load the 250 gr TTSX in my 375 Ruger @ around 2800 fps. I mainly use that bullet here in the Interior because I don't need heavier for moose and bou. And because I trust it on bear. I also shoot the 270 gr Hornady SP @2700 fps .
An older bear guide I know in Hoonah swears by the Winchester 270 gr Power Point factory ammo in his 375 H&H . Says it tips big bears over real good.
On the other hand, I've never heard much good and a bunch of bad about the 375 H&H 300 gr Silvertip factory load .
The 250 gr Remington Core Lok 338 Win mag has a good reputation.
I don't know if it is still available.
Imo the 250 gr Swift A-Frame is hands down one of the best bullets in 338 . after trying lots of handloads. I came to the conclusion with my 338 RUM that I could not improve on the 250 gr A-Frame factory load. Which by and large duplicates the 340 Whby.
The 340 suffered for DECADES from too wimpy a bullet unless handloads loaded with 250 gr Nosler Partition or Bitterroot bullet.
As most brown bear hunting ends up being a relatively close range shot. Using a bullet that is designed to expand at long range is not what a person wants in their rifle.
A guy I knew in Sitka was goat hunting on Baranof back when long range hunting was just starting to take off well. He was using his 338/378 Whby loaded with 185 gr X bullets loaded as fast and accurately as possible . Had a NXS 5-20 something scope on it. He was hunting alone.
Coming down off a mountain one afternoon he noticed his camp had been tore up and saw a 9+ ft bear at his camp. He was around 200 yards away from the bear and his camp.
He was above the bear . He shot the bear broadside in the shoulder. Bear went down and bounced back up. He had been classing goats with his rifle scope and had it on max power. As a light breeze was pushing his scent down hill, the bear knew roughly where he was and started hunting him at a good speed. Not a direct charge as the bear didn't know exactly where the guy was. One front leg was flopping around but that didn't really slow the bear down much. And the bear was specifically Hunting him. He tried for a shot as the bear was moving to get his scent better but the scope was set too high for that situation. He cranked the scope down to min power. The bear looked up over a boulder and he shot it in the head. Killing it.
That experience really shook the guy up from what I gather.
He went out and got a 375 when he got home.
The fast 300 s and 338 have been used for a few decades now in Alaska. The 338/378 KT was popular with some guys. The 30/378 also. I know a guy that killed a 10' bear on Chichagof with the 30/378. 1 shot kill from around 100 yards Iirc he was shooting the 180 gr NP factory loads but I'm not positive. The exact bullet. I do know it was a 180 gr tho.
I do know of lots and lots of bears wounded and lost by guys shooting 30 caliber carts and would never recommend them.

 

[Cold Trigger Finger]

http://www.shootersproshop.com/nosler-products/nosler-blemished-2nds/nosler-338-caliber-300-
This 300 gr AccuBond would probably be a very good bear bullet for the fast 338 s.
When I started with the 338 Win mag I loaded 300 gr Barnes Original rnsn with too much 7828. I tried to reliably get 2500 fps. But due to over compression of the powder. I had real erratic velocities. Had I settled on 2400 fps the extreme spread would have been much smaller. For under 400 yards tho it was amazingly accurate. Like 5/8" groups @ 200 yards. Super easy to thread into a bucks noggin. Or any other shot I needed to take.
This Nosler bullet would have served my purpose much better . And on the RUM. It would have been perfect.