338 win mag bear bullet

[Cold Trigger Finger]

Last year I got the opportunity to help guide in the Bristol Bay area of Alaska for brown bear. It was a great experience and it's about all I think about now. Headed back in August 19. Our first client we had was shooting a 338 win mag and I thought nothing of it. Well after poor performance on a brown bear at 100+/- yards, tracking it into an alder patch and having to finish her with a 375 Ruger mag. Skip ahead a couple days to bear number two. Shot at about the same distance, bear takes off into the alders never to be seen again, ending the hunt for the client, costing him a trophy fee and really upsetting me. I don't like to leave a wounded animal in the field. It got me thinking is 338wm enough gun? It wasn't till the next day we flew out of camp I saw his bullet selection, 200 grain sst....I'm guessing here is our problem. Caliber is discussed with the client but never bullet selection. No, as a helper/assistant and now apprentice working towards my guide license its not my place to suggest what bullet to use. With the clients we have, alot of them have little hunting experience, they go buy a fancy gun in a large caliber and the first box of bullets they see and go for it.

So going forth in preparation for the bear hunts we are now wanting to suggest bullets for the clients to use for a given caliber. 338 and 375 are by far the most used. I was thinking Nosler partition? but after that I don't really know. Thought about Barnes, but will they expand at close range? Would like some more input on 338 win mag, 375 hh and 375 Ruger. Factory ammo, I doubt any of these guys reload.

Hope you made it through my long/short story and don't bash on me......I'm far from a writer!

A 338 Win mag is an OK round for Brown bear. 375 s are better .
With brown bear , wider is better!
Rifle carts that have a 3 for their first number are most often required to use that many half decent to very good hits to cause a bear to stay down and die. Sometimes it takes a few more than that too
Rifles carts that begin with a 4 , the 411s - 475 s are mostly 1 shot stoppers with a half decent to good thoracic cavity hit.
I don't understand why you can't suggest the outfitter require the clients to bring the right bullets !
But then dealing with client hunters is why I chose to Not get into the guiding industry.
I use a 458 mostly and different 416s for my own use. I've almost always shot bears inside 50 feet away. The list Phorwath gave are all good bullets for Brown bear.
I always loaded my 338 s with 275 gr Kodiak Bonded Core bullets at 2620-2640 fps mv .
But a 225 gr TTSX or TSX at around 2800 isn't bad at all.
A classic 338 load is the 250 gr Nosler Partition.
The 375 H&H or Ruger load of a 270 gr bullet @ 2700 fps is imo the best brown bear load you can get out of those 2 carts. My preferred bullet is the Barnes I've been shooting them since the X bullet first came out . Swift A-Frame and Trophy Bonded Bearclaw are the other 2 I'll trust my life with .
Usually factory ammo can be found in one of those 3 bullets.

 

[Cold Trigger Finger]

I don't think I've ever shot a bear where my 1st and subsequent shots weren't aimed for major bones.
A bear can move right along on 3 legs. But can barely crawl when its hips are smashed.
Lots of people talk about bad shots from clients with big rifles. That usually has nothing to do with the big caliber rifle . Everything to do with the person shooting it.
Which is where the 338 Win mag comes in to its own . It is a fairly easy cart to shoot well while providing good velocity , diameter and SD.

 

[etisll40]

375 or higher, preferably go to 40 caliber, woodleigh, a frames, go 400 grains and higher

View attachment 119311
My Kodiak that I took with a 338 win mag, 1 shot @ 209 yards. Went 20 yards and expired. I reload my own. I used a Barnes TTSX and she was quartering to me and I put it just in front of the front shoulder crease and it exited in the hind quarter. The bear had no idea I was there so that may have something to do with as she was relaxed.

I've read their hearts beat at about 9 per minute so a lung shot or heart shot they have 5 minutes, body is filled with oxygen because of the slow heartbeat. If they see you they have 5 minutes + adrenaline.

 

[the hunter]

Different experiences, different opinions. I know a guy that shot a Boone & Crockett 11 footer on the Alaskan Peninsula with a 416 Remington Magnum and Barnes X bullets about 7yrs ago Drilled the boar twice thru the chest/vitals, both shots within 100yds. 4 1/2 hours later, the boar was crouched in its bed in the alders and came after him. Good thing he waited 4 1/2 hours. He about stumbled into its lap. Bear was slowed enough he had time to react and kill it. 2 hrs earlier and a good chance the bear woulda killed him.

No ghost story here, and no rookie hunter. This local Alaskan shoots and hunts more than most. Believe it or not...

Holy cow, who knows the 20mm anti aircraft gun could take off and be even more popular than the creed

 

[Christopher Hanes]

I shot my Kodiak Brown with a 338 Win Mag pushing a 225 grain Barnes TTSX. 1 shot drop and flop. DRT. Distance 125 yards.

 

[Pdvdh]

Different experiences, different opinions. I know a guy that shot a Boone & Crockett 11 footer on the Alaskan Peninsula with a 416 Remington Magnum and 350gr Barnes X bullets about 7yrs ago Drilled the boar twice thru the chest/vitals, both shots within 100yds. 4 1/2 hours later, the boar was crouched in its bed in the alders and came after him. Good thing he waited 4 1/2 hours. He about stumbled into its lap. Bear was slowed enough he had time to react and kill it. 2 hrs earlier and a good chance the bear woulda killed him.

No ghost story here, and no rookie hunter. This local Alaskan shoots and hunts more than most. Believe it or not...

Thought I should provide a few more details.
The hunter and his buddy had no idea the bear was nearby. And the boar had no idea they were nearby. The hunters were busy stalking a second bear. When the hunting partner shot the other bear, the humongous boar stands up on hind feet, looking for the source of the danger. The hunter instantly saw the boar was huge compared to the size of the bear his buddy had just fired at. So he fires his first shot into the front chest of the boar while it was standing up on rears, facing them. The bear ran cross ways, heading for the nearest alder patch. The hunter hit the boar one more time in the chest while it was running for the alders. And then it was outta their sight.

Two considerations:
1) The boar was already pumping adrenalin prior to the first shot fired. Bears running on adrenalin are tougher than sleeping bears.
2) The first frontal shot to the brisket of the boar had no possibility of hitting both lungs, based on its posture at the time of the shot.

The hunter made the wise decision to let the bear be for 4+ hours. It was a monster. Better safe than sorry.

Rest of the story is the bear was crouched down watching its back trail, just the other side of a thick tangle of downed alders/cover. Hunter didn't see the bear until he was about to climb over the tangle of debris. Only then did the bear rise to fight. The bear was weakened and its response speed slowed. Gave the hunter time to sh_t his undies and shoot. Well..., he never admitted to the first sh. I added that on my own. But he finished the bear there in the thick stuff. He did admit to a huge scare and adrenalin rush. The look of fear returned to his face while was sharing the kill shots part of the story.

 

[Tikkamike]

I have personally shot several bears with both 338 win and 375 rum, and over the last 7 years we (myself, dad and a couple friends) have taken over 20 bears, most were killed with 338's and 375's. the 225 ttsx in my 338 win mag has killed a bunch of bears, all of which encountered shoulder either on the way in or the way out or both. These are by no means coastal black bears, but 3 of mine were over 6' and one over 7'. As an Elk hunter I came to the conclusion that I like the tough construction of Barnes bullets a long time ago. They open reliably and retain a huge amount of original weight, usually over 95%. I think the partition or even a bonded bullet like the accubond is a good choice as long as you stay heavy for caliber, like 250 or above in 338. In .375 RUM, I use the 270 TSX and it an absolute dominator. I would go as small as 30 cal but definitely need well constructed bullets with some weight to them.

 

[bigngreen]

Just my opinion that comparing a black bear to a big Brown bear or even a mountain grizzly is really akin to comparing whitetail to elk, I know the black bears and grizzly I've been around I would not put into the same class!!

 

[GoodmanCPA]

All great advice. They did not address my personal question. I own a beautiful 1973 Winchester Model 70 in blued steel and wood stock in .375 H & H. I also own a Savage Bear Hunter Model 116 in stainless steel and fiberglass stock in .338 Winchester Mag. I prefer the stainless for bad weather. Both are push feed.

I am an experienced hand loader and frequent hunter for 50+ years. I never use factory loads. I never hunted brown bear. I shot three black bears with my .30-06, with 180 grain Speer Spitzer and Hornady Interbond hand loads.

I loaded Nosler 225 grain Partition bullets for the .338 mag. and 260 grain Nosler Partition bullets for the .375. I get small groups at 100 yards, under 1.5 inches for both. Recoil is acceptable. The .338 has a factory muzzle brake. The .375 does not.

I can carry only one rifle at a time. Both weigh about the same. Pick one!

Second question: Is the Accubond or Partition better within 150 yards? Pick one. Or should I switch to the Swift A-Frame bullets?

I shoot Ballistic Tips in smaller cartridges for deer.

 

[HARPERC]

.......Just my opinion that comparing a black bear to a big Brown bear or even a mountain grizzly is really akin to comparing whitetail to elk, I know the black bears and grizzly I've been around I would not put into the same class!!.........

Don't disagree, but seeing the amount of penetration required, bullet quality, and some of the punishment a black bear can take at times, certainly helps one contemplate what minimums should be considered when moving up a league.

 

[HARPERC]

.....I can carry only one rifle at a time. Both weigh about the same. Pick one!.........

.375, 300 grain Swift A-Frame. Given those choices.

 

[Pdvdh]

Nosler Partition over the Accubond at closer yardage.

Swift A-Frame are tougher bullets, because the nose lead core is bonded to the jacket. But the Partition is nothing to sneeze at.

375 for big bears, if you shoot it as well as the braked 338. More trauma per bullet strike than the .338, providing equal impact velocity, similar bullet sectional density, and equivalent bullet style/manufacture.

The larger calibers incapacitate big bears quicker. Step up to .458 Win Mag, and the common effect is the bears are deflated to ground level with a solid hit to their frontal chest section. Never shot one with a 458, but that's their commonly described effect on big bear.

 

[FIGJAM]

I have a question for you experienced brown bear hunters - if all you had was a 7 RM or 300 wsm, would it be worth purchasing a 375 or 338 for a single brown bear hunt? Or would you just load the one of the bullets recommended in this thread and go for it?

 

[HARPERC]

- if all you had was a 7 RM or 300 wsm, would it be worth purchasing a 375 or 338 for a single brown bear hunt?

If nothing else the price of a brown bear hunt justifies a rifle for the purpose.