I've been curious what has been found to cause the extra speed here.
338 EDGE @3146 with 300 Berger
- Thread starter Azprc
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6.5-300 BEE
Well-Known Member
My 338 RUM has a 36" 3 groove nitrided bbl. Can't get much faster than that. With the 300 Bergers and RL 33 I can break 3000 with no drama. IME H-1000 is way too fast. Only RL 33 and H-869 have worked for me.
Interesting comments on the Edge. https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/.338+Edge.html
Interesting comments on the Edge. https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/.338+Edge.html
codyadams
Well-Known Member
tag. Want to finish reading thread.
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Asking because I just built another 338 edge yesterday with a 28" barrel and I haven't cerakoted it yet .... soooooo, it is still in a good place to make throat mods, etc.
bigngreen
Well-Known Member
Run it as is then plus p it so you know how throating works, a 338 is a good one to play with since you don't shoot the throat out before getting started playing.
I can't bring myself to pay someone to +P it. I'll call jgs and see what kind of custom 338 throating reamers they have
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codyadams
Well-Known Member
The O.P. hasn't been on the forum since September 17th, 2014. The day after he posted his final bitter post.
Was hoping someone knew the cause since the op listed the barrel manufacturer.
codyadams
Well-Known Member
How do you make a standard .338 Edge hit 3300 fps with a 300 Berger and RL33 and 4.00" OAL???????
Lol
Lol
I miss those commercials
codyadams
Well-Known Member
I bet if someone knew, it would have been a wildfire in the firearms industry, if in fact 3300 fps w/300 berger in an edge was with safe pressure. I am somewhat skeptical of that, as anyone that enjoys having a face should be....
bigngreen
Well-Known Member
I can't believe you haven't figured it out, put your thinking cap on!!
Meant to say I can't bring myself to pay someone.... I need sleep
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
From someone who has done extensive testing in many different chamberings with my Hybrid Throat design which is nearly identical to the +p design, i would strongly urge you to research the downsides of this throat design before jumping into it. I will speak only from the FACTS i have from testing the hell out of my design. Yes, these throat designs certainly flatten the pressure curve of any chambering. This allows more powder to be used in a given chamber and also allows for the use of faster burning powders as well.
all this will add up to significant performance increases. The APS Hybrid and DE +P throat designs behave much like a throat with a long section of freebore but combine the benefits of a long free bore (flattening of pressure curve) with the benefits of a conventional throat (consistency and accuracy).
however, there are downsides to this. There is a significant length of the rifling that is cut down quite thin in these throat designs. This allows the bullet to engage the rifling and start rotating the instant they start moving down the bore but because this section of lands is so shallow, the engraving force needed to drive the bullet through this section is VERY low compared to full depth rifling. The down side comes with the fact that these very short lands are subject to erosion much more quickly then a conventional throat design and it takes a fraction of the number of rounds to erode them compared to conventional throats.
once the lands are eroded, you are left with basically an over sized throwt that is an inch long, accuracy goes to heck usually but velocity also really drops off and there is no option to "chase the lands" with these designs when the throats go.....
there has been a lot of promoting these types of throats but as a designer of one of them, and from someone that has not only tested performance improvements but also found the life limits of them in many different calibers, i made the decision to drop the Hybrid throat design as an option on my rifles, even though i spent well over $10k trying to prove they were viable. They certainly do improve performance but that comes at a price in much shorter barrel life with no real way to set the barrel back and recut the throat because they are so long. Not all wine and roses as many are claiming.
i have tested. My Hybrid throat design on the following:
270 Allen Magnum
7mm Allen Magnum
338 Allen Xpress
338 Allen Magnum
375 Allen Magnum
for each chambering, i did an initial performance test but they found throat life issues with the original 338 Allen Xpress test rifle. As such i needed to determine for sure how barrel life was effected.
to do this i chamnebered a barrel in each of the above chamberings with conventional throat and fired a total of 300 rounds through each barrel all fired using the same method. Firing 10 shot strings with 5 seconds between each shot. Then barrels were allowed to cool and repeat. This took considerable time obviously so did it while testing customer rifles on the range. At the end of each, i would pull the barrels and measure throat diameter and length and compare to original diameter and length.
then the process was repeated but the new barrels, made to same exact specs, had the Hybrid throats. i needed to make this as fair as possible so the loads i used Were developed to produce the exact same velocity as the conventional throated test barrels. Which in fact was a very mild load in the Hybrid throated barrels.
the results were that for the 338 Allen Xpress and 375 Allen Magnum, the hybrid throated barrels had 20-25% more throat erosion in diameter and length then the conventional throated barrels.
the 270 Allen Magnum 30% more erosion.
the 7mm Allen Magnum and 338 Allen Magnum has 35-40% more erosion for same number of rounds down the bore
not only that, by the end of the testing, the conventionally throated barrels of each had significantly less velocity loss compared to the Hybrid throated barrels.
not to be fair, these were all button pulled barrels which tend to be much softer steel which does not help in any throat life. I only use bartlein barrels today which are much harder and offer much longer throat life then any soft button pulled barrel.
also, all of these chamberings are on the upper to extreme level of performance so all would be harder on any throat then say a 260 Rem, however results were consistent across the board.
seeing this, i decided i would much rather offer my customers 25-40% more barrel life then add 100 fps to their performance levels. As such i pulled the Hybrid throat as an option. These are my results from ACTUAL trigger pulls, not opinion. So educate yourself to not only the advantages but also the disadvantages if anything that is claimed to give you dramatic performance boosts with no downsides..... that simply is not the case..... just go into it informed and not all star eyed.....
all this will add up to significant performance increases. The APS Hybrid and DE +P throat designs behave much like a throat with a long section of freebore but combine the benefits of a long free bore (flattening of pressure curve) with the benefits of a conventional throat (consistency and accuracy).
however, there are downsides to this. There is a significant length of the rifling that is cut down quite thin in these throat designs. This allows the bullet to engage the rifling and start rotating the instant they start moving down the bore but because this section of lands is so shallow, the engraving force needed to drive the bullet through this section is VERY low compared to full depth rifling. The down side comes with the fact that these very short lands are subject to erosion much more quickly then a conventional throat design and it takes a fraction of the number of rounds to erode them compared to conventional throats.
once the lands are eroded, you are left with basically an over sized throwt that is an inch long, accuracy goes to heck usually but velocity also really drops off and there is no option to "chase the lands" with these designs when the throats go.....
there has been a lot of promoting these types of throats but as a designer of one of them, and from someone that has not only tested performance improvements but also found the life limits of them in many different calibers, i made the decision to drop the Hybrid throat design as an option on my rifles, even though i spent well over $10k trying to prove they were viable. They certainly do improve performance but that comes at a price in much shorter barrel life with no real way to set the barrel back and recut the throat because they are so long. Not all wine and roses as many are claiming.
i have tested. My Hybrid throat design on the following:
270 Allen Magnum
7mm Allen Magnum
338 Allen Xpress
338 Allen Magnum
375 Allen Magnum
for each chambering, i did an initial performance test but they found throat life issues with the original 338 Allen Xpress test rifle. As such i needed to determine for sure how barrel life was effected.
to do this i chamnebered a barrel in each of the above chamberings with conventional throat and fired a total of 300 rounds through each barrel all fired using the same method. Firing 10 shot strings with 5 seconds between each shot. Then barrels were allowed to cool and repeat. This took considerable time obviously so did it while testing customer rifles on the range. At the end of each, i would pull the barrels and measure throat diameter and length and compare to original diameter and length.
then the process was repeated but the new barrels, made to same exact specs, had the Hybrid throats. i needed to make this as fair as possible so the loads i used Were developed to produce the exact same velocity as the conventional throated test barrels. Which in fact was a very mild load in the Hybrid throated barrels.
the results were that for the 338 Allen Xpress and 375 Allen Magnum, the hybrid throated barrels had 20-25% more throat erosion in diameter and length then the conventional throated barrels.
the 270 Allen Magnum 30% more erosion.
the 7mm Allen Magnum and 338 Allen Magnum has 35-40% more erosion for same number of rounds down the bore
not only that, by the end of the testing, the conventionally throated barrels of each had significantly less velocity loss compared to the Hybrid throated barrels.
not to be fair, these were all button pulled barrels which tend to be much softer steel which does not help in any throat life. I only use bartlein barrels today which are much harder and offer much longer throat life then any soft button pulled barrel.
also, all of these chamberings are on the upper to extreme level of performance so all would be harder on any throat then say a 260 Rem, however results were consistent across the board.
seeing this, i decided i would much rather offer my customers 25-40% more barrel life then add 100 fps to their performance levels. As such i pulled the Hybrid throat as an option. These are my results from ACTUAL trigger pulls, not opinion. So educate yourself to not only the advantages but also the disadvantages if anything that is claimed to give you dramatic performance boosts with no downsides..... that simply is not the case..... just go into it informed and not all star eyed.....
