.308 Project -seeking advice-

[trebark]

RiP:
1. Can't say I know much about that scope. But the magnification range is right where it should be for an all-around rifle.

2a. Those are nice rings although I am a fan of the Burris Signature Rings. They come with plastic inserts varying sizes so that you can cant (tilt) your scope without the need for a canted base. I also like the plastic inserts as they will not leave ring marks.

2b. Manners makes a great stock, but with a 56mm front objective, you will have the mount the scope pretty high. Without an adjustable cheekpiece you will have a hard time getting a good cheek weld. You might want to look at McMillan's. Several of their stocks have an adjustable cheekpiece option.

3. That's a wild lookin' bipod. As long as it works the way you want that's that matters. Personally, I use Harris Bipods.

4. As I said before, don't know much about DBM but that looks nice. I do like the lever on the trigger guard. Easily accessible without having to lift your head from the rifle.

 

[NomadPilot]

2b. Manners makes a great stock, but with a 56mm front objective, you will have the mount the scope pretty high. Without an adjustable cheekpiece you will have a hard time getting a good cheek weld. You might want to look at McMillan's. Several of their stocks have an adjustable cheekpiece option.

Manners has the same options, like this T4A.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=678640

 

[trebark]

Manners has the same options, like this T4A.

Manners T4A Picture Thread - Sniper's Hide Forums

Thanks for the correction.

Can you give Ripper some feedback on his DBM?

 

[Ripper]

Hey gents,

Must start out by thanking those guiding me along and being patient with me.

With that being said I have been reading as much as I can in terms of accuracy with barrels be concerned. It seems the last part of your accuracy is determined with your barrel and obviously the crown. I read this at the Hart barrel webby:

Where possible, we suggest using as heavy a barrel as is feasible, for it is an established fact that heavier barrels produce better accuracy, especially over longer courses of fire.

It makes sense to me... Heavier rifle, heavier up in the front, less recoil etc?

Seeing that going with a heavy bull barrel would be a little to much what would be a good contour to go with that's going to allow as much accuracy as possible? I have had good groups in the past with the M40A3 but i'm thinking about going a little bit heavier as my goal is 1 hole at 200 yds. "It's going to take good ammo, rifle and shooter and it's only a goal".

Also; does anyone have any input on what company to go with for what I am looking for? Reading in to Hart, Shilen, Lija, Krieger, Douglas, Broughton, orbormeyer amongst other's all sound like they make top of the line barrel's and have decades of history to back their product. I couldn't guess what the deciding factor/s would be in choosing with what company seeing how they are all similar in price.

I really like how the barrel countour below is even nearly all the way down the entire barrel.





Lastly; to touch on the scope issue. Is there anything I can do to preven ring to scope contact so that the rings are not damaging the finish on the scope?

As much advice as possible is still at request here
Thank you very much once again.
Cheers,
RiP

 

[NomadPilot]

Can you give Ripper some feedback on his DBM?

No, I went with Seekins stuff. I liked the AR-style mag release. But as I'm sure you know and Ripper knows or will find out, Badger has fans far and wide, and it's not because they build crap. I'm sure he won't be disappointed with the M5.

Also; does anyone have any input on what company to go with for what I am looking for?

I would - and did - let my gunsmith decide. He probably has one or two companies he prefers to deal with, and his reputation is built on making good choices of suppliers. You're not going to notice a difference between top-of-the-line barrel makers, so don't burden yourself with that choice so much.

As for contour, have you defined your goal weight? That'll help you a lot in determining what barrel profile you want. I wanted my 260 barrel to be thick enough to handle some strings of fire, like a local sniper match might set up, and still be light enough to carry. I ended up with a 22" Brux #5 and I'm very happy. I'll see how it carries this winter.

Lastly; to touch on the scope issue. Is there anything I can do to preven ring to scope contact so that the rings are not damaging the finish on the scope?

Short of the Burris inserts, your rings have to touch your scope. Properly fit rings won't mar your scope. Some guys like to use black electrical tape to minimize the risk of ring marks. I've never felt the need. I try to keep my rifles and all my stuff in top condition, but in the end, it's a tool.

 

[Ripper]

No, I went with Seekins stuff. I liked the AR-style mag release. But as I'm sure you know and Ripper knows or will find out, Badger has fans far and wide, and it's not because they build crap. I'm sure he won't be disappointed with the M5.

I would - and did - let my gunsmith decide. He probably has one or two companies he prefers to deal with, and his reputation is built on making good choices of suppliers. You're not going to notice a difference between top-of-the-line barrel makers, so don't burden yourself with that choice so much.

As for contour, have you defined your goal weight? That'll help you a lot in determining what barrel profile you want. I wanted my 260 barrel to be thick enough to handle some strings of fire, like a local sniper match might set up, and still be light enough to carry. I ended up with a 22" Brux #5 and I'm very happy. I'll see how it carries this winter.

Short of the Burris inserts, your rings have to touch your scope. Properly fit rings won't mar your scope. Some guys like to use black electrical tape to minimize the risk of ring marks. I've never felt the need. I try to keep my rifles and all my stuff in top condition, but in the end, it's a tool.

Yes indeed, it is a tool. I have a tendeny to over baby my equipment. A infantry soldier to; try and imagine that. I had a soldier in my platoon leave his weapon with a brand new leupold scope laying on its side letting the scope get all scratched up and banged up. Long story short I blew up on him others thought I was out of line. Maybe I was but I saw him walk past it many a time and failed to correct it. His iPOD seemed more important to him and it made me mad. Of course "atleast in the Army" soldier's get away with a lot more than they use to.

I do not have a goal weight but being heavy is of no issue for me at all. I'm wanting to pick out a heavier contour. At the same time this rifle isn't a 25mm so to big just wouldn't make any sense. Well I better get on the ball here with this. Would a smith have a problem with me sending him the barrel already complete?

How is A.J Browns work? I have only read a couple people talk about him but their comments were that he does good work at affordable prices. If anyone has a good smith in mind for me that would be great. I am ever so slightly worried about choosing my next smith because my last one did me in pretty good... I had to assist the round 25% of the time becaues it wasn't feeding properly. I was pretty upset about that considering I pad $1000's to wait for 13 months to get a product I least expected to not chamber.

Thanks gentlemen; I really appreciate it.
Hoooah!
RiP

 

[trebark]

RiP:
I'll get back to your earlier post and respond line by line later when I have a bit more time. For now, I wanted to chime in with a gunsmith recommendation....

Kevin Cram at Montour County Rifles

Montour County Rifles

He did the accurizing job on my nephew's rifle and he just completed my 260. Kevin does great work. Check for posts from him in the Gun Photo section (screen name Kevin Cram). He often posts pics and specs of his work there.

 

[Ripper]

I will check him out right after I get back dropping kids off at camp. Look foward to your reply

Thanks,
RiP

 

[trebark]

Hey gents,

Must start out by thanking those guiding me along and being patient with me.

With that being said I have been reading as much as I can in terms of accuracy with barrels be concerned. It seems the last part of your accuracy is determined with your barrel and obviously the crown. I read this at the Hart barrel webby:

Where possible, we suggest using as heavy a barrel as is feasible, for it is an established fact that heavier barrels produce better accuracy, especially over longer courses of fire.

It makes sense to me... Heavier rifle, heavier up in the front, less recoil etc?

Yes, heavier barrels are generally more accurate than lighter ones and especially when you will be doing a lot of continuous shooting like a rifle match. Also, the heavier the barrel, the less felt recoil.

Seeing that going with a heavy bull barrel would be a little to much what would be a good contour to go with that's going to allow as much accuracy as possible? I have had good groups in the past with the M40A3 but i'm thinking about going a little bit heavier as my goal is 1 hole at 200 yds. "It's going to take good ammo, rifle and shooter and it's only a goal".

If you went with a 26" or 28" barrel that tapers directly from 1.25" to .820" at the muzzle would be pretty good.

Also; does anyone have any input on what company to go with for what I am looking for? Reading in to Hart, Shilen, Lija, Krieger, Douglas, Broughton, orbormeyer amongst other's all sound like they make top of the line barrel's and have decades of history to back their product. I couldn't guess what the deciding factor/s would be in choosing with what company seeing how they are all similar in price.

Talk with your gunsmith about this. He may have a preference. Generally speaking, no company stands above another. They all seem to do quality work and have plenty of satisfied customers to back up their claims. For my recent build I went with Brux becuase they could deliver in 3 weeks where most others were quoting months for delivery.

I really like how the barrel countour below is even nearly all the way down the entire barrel.

This is the taper I suggested above. The taper begins immediately at the action and continues smoothly all the way to the muzzle.

Lastly; to touch on the scope issue. Is there anything I can do to preven ring to scope contact so that the rings are not damaging the finish on the scope?

Burris Signature Rings have plastic inserts and they generally will not leave marks on your scope. Scopes - rings by Burris Optics.

 

[bowhunthard88]

That's a helluva list. Question, though. Why the TAC300 for a short action cartridge (or did you not mean 308 Win)? If you plan to use the long action to load extra long, then you might look at the Seekins DBM. They'll let you load a little longer COAL than the AICS mags.

If you like the Badger bottom metal, but you want to load a longer COAL, check out the Alpha Industries MORTA Type 2 mags, they fit the Badger or any bottom metal that takes the AICS mags. The only thing is that with the long mags, the feed ramp has to be modified (not a big deal if you do it while it's getting assembled).

Alpha Industries & Manufacturing

Good luck.

 

[bowhunthard88]

With a 1:11 twist you will be able to shoot any weight bullet and stabilize it out past 1k yards.

I agree with everything trebark said, except for this. I agree that any bullet under 175 gr. will stabilize in a 1:11" twist, that said, a 168 gr. will stabilize in a 1:12" twist. If you are going to shoot bullets that are heavier than 175 gr. go with a 1:10" twist, you will still be able to shoot the lighter bullets. With the average bullet 1:11" twist will be fine, but not for the heavier ones.

At 100 yds. a 1:12" twist will stabilize a 178 gr. enough for awesome accuracy (0.089" - actual personal experience), but @ 450 yds. the group was opening up to about 8.5". I switched to 168 gr. bullets (same type/brand of bullet), and groups are slightly under an inch @ same range. I guess you'll also have to take into account how far out you want to stabilize the weight bullet you want to shoot.

The Hornady 178 gr. A-MAX box states that it takes a 1:10" twist to stabilize them correctly. Twist being a function of stabilization, length plays a big part as well as weight.

 

[trebark]

I agree with everything trebark said, except for this. I agree that any bullet under 175 gr. will stabilize in a 1:11" twist, that said, a 168 gr. will stabilize in a 1:12" twist. If you are going to shoot bullets that are heavier than 175 gr. go with a 1:10" twist, you will still be able to shoot the lighter bullets. With the average bullet 1:11" twist will be fine, but not for the heavier ones.

At 100 yds. a 1:12" twist will stabilize a 178 gr. enough for awesome accuracy (0.089" - actual personal experience), but @ 450 yds. the group was opening up to about 8.5". I switched to 168 gr. bullets (same type/brand of bullet), and groups are slightly under an inch @ same range. I guess you'll also have to take into account how far out you want to stabilize the weight bullet you want to shoot.

The Hornady 178 gr. A-MAX box states that it takes a 1:10" twist to stabilize them correctly. Twist being a function of stabilization, length plays a big part as well as weight.

Like you, my statement on 1:11 twist was based on experience. I have a buddy that has a 28" 1:11 twist 308 and he shoots the 208 grain Amax with tremendous accuracy and they stay stable well beyond 1k (seen it done)

In the end, my advice would be to go with 1:11 or 1:10 as that will stabilize the heavy bullets where the 1:12 will not.

 

[bowhunthard88]

Like you, my statement on 1:11 twist was based on experience. I have a buddy that has a 28" 1:11 twist 308 and he shoots the 208 grain Amax with tremendous accuracy and they stay stable well beyond 1k (seen it done)

In the end, my advice would be to go with 1:11 or 1:10 as that will stabilize the heavy bullets where the 1:12 will not.

I'm really sorry, my mouth (or fingers) jumped before my mind did lol. Therein lies another clarification, barrel length. Your buddy has a 28" barrel, therefore more velocity. Mine is about 20.5". Correction accepted.

 

[BountyHunter]

What is your intended purpose fo this gun? All around, Fclass, etc

That answer should certainly drive your considerations on barrel contour, length, chamber etc!!

for example, standard general purpose or sniper configu 308 is using a max 26" barrel (many at 20-24" also) in M24/HV countour while the F Class/Palmas are using a 30" HV or Palma countour and often tight bore.

Here are some thoughts to consider.

If you want the most current info on shooting the 308, go to the "long range target shooting" site linked below. The top palma and F class guys are here and they have some very good insite on reamers in particular. They know all the best combo bullet/twist/reamers and throat combos and there is plenty of discussions there for you to read.

Absolutely no better place for info on the 308.

Sign In

IMO the last bullet you want to set up a 308 for is the 168 SMK. It will not normally reach 1000 as it loses stability most of the time at 900 or so. So why even use it for anything, either go to the 175/185 or one of the new 155s.

Their seems to be a general consensus that either you use the 175/185 gr bullets or one of the new 155s. Probably 90% of 308s are set up for one of those two bullet classes. Both will reach 1000 plus and more but require substantially different throats in particular and twists (1-11 vs 1-13) according to most.

Now there are certain reamers that will allow use of most bullets with trade offs at one end or the other and seem to work well.

You have 3 different new 155s and they all vary in throat requirements and a longer throat (for 175/185 plus) will give you a lot of jump when using the 155s in that throat.

Call Dave Kiff at Pacific Tool and Gauge and discuss reamers with him once you decide what the guns purpose is as he has a couple very good specialty and overall use 308 reamers he recommends. Buy your own and keep it for rebarrelling later.

Better plan on a 20 MOA base too also as the 175/185 at 2650 will normally take 38 MOA to get to 1000 and the 155s will be 2-3 MOA less.

Highly recommend the standard Lapua 308 brass or their brand new Lapua 308 palma brass that is just coming out.

Varget, 4064 and RL 15 seem to be the go to powders with CCI BR2, WLR primers.

BH