308 or 6.5CM

[Steve gavette]

I ran into a retired soldier turned contractor and then retired completely at the range. He had all kinds of RAZU stuff going on: electronic target he set at 50 yards that fed data to his mobile device, very distinctive rifle, shooting mat, spotting scope, etc. I had to strike up a conversation. He was tuning his "back up rifle" that he uses for 1000 yard "F Class" competition. It was a 308. I asked him why 308, what about the 6.5 hype? He noted: 1) the 308 wins more matches. The 30 caliber bullet is less susceptible to wind shift, noting a wind gust can mean the difference between a 9 and a 10 on the 1000 yard target. The 30 caliber bullet doesn't move as much. 2) shooting a 100 rounds in competition results in fatigue. His competition loads run at about 2500 fps, and produce less recoil and less noise. This fellow struck me as having insight leaving me realize just how much of an amateur that I really am. Sometimes the retail promotions and paid for evaluations on YouTube masquerade as "science". Seems to be a lot of that going around. Look at politics, global warming, yada, yada, yada.... My short meeting with this impressive gentlemen opened my eyes to as Paul Harvey used to close with, "and that is the rest of the story". Don't sell the 308 short.

If he is competing in F Class with a .308, he is likely competing in T/R. Only options are .308 and .223. Nearly everybody shoots .308. In F Class Open, I don't know anyone that shoots .308 Win.

 

[sfdoc2000]

Bryan Litz is the chief ballistics person for Berger Bullets and is also on the national F-class team. His books teach us that wind drift is NOT a function of BC but the TIME the bullet is exposed to the wind and the wind speed. There really is negligible resistance to lateral motion for the bullet in flight so the wind drift is mostly independent of the size of the bullet. Where BC comes in, is the higher the BC, the less the bullet slows down in flight, therefore reaching the target faster and less time exposed to the wind. Where things get tricky in long distance shooting is that the wind can change sometimes several times as the bullet travels downrange. What may be the wind at your shooting position may be different from the wind at 500 yards which may be different from the wind at 1000 yards. That's why folks like Litz are such incredible shooters because they can really read the wind conditions downrange. Finally there are different classes in F-class shooting. F-open is open to most any caliber. F-TR (target rifle) is for military caliber (5.56 and 7.62) only. My understanding is that most F-TR guys shoot the 7.62 (.308) bullets.

 

[sfdoc2000]

If he is competing in F Class with a .308, he is likely competing in T/R. Only options are .308 and .223. Nearly everybody shoots .308. In F Class Open, I don't know anyone that shoots .308 Win.

Sreve, looks we are thinking along the same lines. 2 years ago I got my F-TR rifle completed by John Pierce using his titanium action with a McMillan F class stock. Two months later I had the first of 6 successive retinal detachments in both eyes leaving me with a big blind spot in the center of my right eye. Now a year and a half later trying to modify the stock to allow my face to get low enough in the stock comb to use my left eye for the scope. Hopefully will be able to join the competition in 2021. Know I probably won't be ;highly competitive but will just enjoy the friendship of the competition folks.

 

[Steve gavette]

Sreve, looks we are thinking along the same lines. 2 years ago I got my F-TR rifle completed by John Pierce using his titanium action with a McMillan F class stock. Two months later I had the first of 6 successive retinal detachments in both eyes leaving me with a big blind spot in the center of my right eye. Now a year and a half later trying to modify the stock to allow my face to get low enough in the stock comb to use my left eye for the scope. Hopefully will be able to join the competition in 2021. Know I probably won't be ;highly competitive but will just enjoy the friendship of the competition folks.

Sounds like your eye issues are behind you now, that is great. Have you considered just switching to shooting lefty? Advantage is, like used golf clubs, used lefty guns/components can sometimes be picked up cheaper.

 

[sfdoc2000]

I have tried lefty but not a pretty sight. I shot competition small bore in high school and college in the 60's and 70's and then military competition (Champion's Choice M1-A .308) through the late 80's. Now retired at 71 and have just too much muscle memory to go to a new style of shooting. When I discovered F class several years ago I thought my shooting world was going to be reborn. Still want to do this more than ever. I think modifying the cheek piece slot will be my best option. If you are shooting F Class would like to meet you. Gary Z

 

[sfdoc2000]

Want to build a new rifle and starting looking at Lane Precision. I'm looking for a sub 300 yard rifle for deer and pigs. I like the 308 for many reasons and have a savage heavy barrel that was basically my first rifle 15 years ago. Still shoots well but I want a rifle I can carry in the woods for long hikes. I have a 300 WM if I even make it out elk hunting so I don't need a large caliber rifle.
So I'm looking for advice between the 308 and 6.5cm. I know the 6.5 is the new sexy round but for hunting deer and pigs under 300 yards what would you get?
I know there are a ton of other calibers out there but I'm only considering the 308 or 6.5.

many and all input welcomed.

A couple of years ago I got the Kimber 84M Hunter in 6.5 CM topped with a Vortex 3-15 Razor HD Light Hunter scope. Total weight is just over 6.5 lbs. Shoots well with Hornady 140 gn ELD-M match ammo. VERY easy to carry.

 

[corsair4360]

I don't know. Dinging metal at a thousand yards seems like it would be enjoyable. I would buy a rifle just to be able to do something like that. I would never attempt to shoot any animal past 400 yds though. That is my personal limit by choice.

Shooting at 1,000 yards is very enjoyable. We have a range 40 miles from my house which you can shoot steel at 1,000 yards which I have done many times

 

[cmysix]

Sreve, looks we are thinking along the same lines. 2 years ago I got my F-TR rifle completed by John Pierce using his titanium action with a McMillan F class stock. Two months later I had the first of 6 successive retinal detachments in both eyes leaving me with a big blind spot in the center of my right eye. Now a year and a half later trying to modify the stock to allow my face to get low enough in the stock comb to use my left eye for the scope. Hopefully will be able to join the competition in 2021. Know I probably won't be ;highly competitive but will just enjoy the friendship of the competition folks.

You are a walking miracle my friend, having any vision left in any eye. My sister had one but it was 5 days before she got to a surgeon in San Francisco, he buckled it and a month later it detached again, then they found her pressure to be thru the roof, she also is very lucky as she has good vision out of that eye and has not even had the lens put in yet! you both are very lucky!

 

[cmysix]

I have tried lefty but not a pretty sight. I shot competition small bore in high school and college in the 60's and 70's and then military competition (Champion's Choice M1-A .308) through the late 80's. Now retired at 71 and have just too much muscle memory to go to a new style of shooting. When I discovered F class several years ago I thought my shooting world was going to be reborn. Still want to do this more than ever. I think modifying the cheek piece slot will be my best option. If you are shooting F Class would like to meet you. Gary Z

There are custom stock carvers, mostly for shot gunners(trap) these guys are very good making a stock for all kinds of variations in the body, I have seen a gentleman in a wheel chair severely disabled shoot trap and he's good at it.

 

[sfdoc2000]

There are custom stock carvers, mostly for shot gunners(trap) these guys are very good making a stock for all kinds of variations in the body, I have seen a gentleman in a wheel chair severely disabled shoot trap and he's good at it.

You are right, I guess I am VERY lucky to have had three detachments in each eye and still have 20-40 in the left eye. Not so great in the right, though. Will keep the custom stock guys in mind if I can't get the McMillan modified to work. Thanks.

 

[Mongo3006]

Originally I wanted an AR platform 308 as well but the idiot lawmakers in CA took that option off the table for me a couple years ago. I really hate this state but thats another topic.

As far as recoil I am not shy. DOnt get me wrong....shooting my 300 WM all day does beat me up a little but it lets you know you are still alive.

KSB you can still build an AR10 here if you wanted to, you just need to make a change or 2 to make it compliant

 

[KSB209]

KSB you can still build an AR10 here if you wanted to, you just need to make a change or 2 to make it compliant

But what fun is that? HAHA.....I know I could do a lot but F CA! When I do eventually leave this state I will build the evil black gun I want but for now I'll just stick with bolt action.

I feel bad for guys with AR style rifles and law enforcement too. I have heard stories from people with "compliant" rifles that get harrassed by LEO who dont know the law and LEO that total disagree with the laws that dont want to enforce them too.

I have a CCW and have had my disagreements with LEO who dont know the laws but what can you do. WHen I am armed I know better then to argue with LEO who don't want to deal with an armed citizen. Comply to stay alive!!! I wish some other would figure that out but that is another topic altogether!!!!