300 wsm questions/problems

[timeless61]

here is my next question, as I said it is not really a long range gun anymore, I am curious about the bergers. I know what a 168 a-max does on wet newspaper at 50 yards and i was pretty unimpressed, and do not think it would do very much to an animal they pretty much exploded on impact and did not penetrate in my tests anyway. what will the bergers do?

this gun will mainly see shots in the 75 yard range, out to 400 max, so I do not need fantastic accuracy but want it to be as good as possible, and part of that is just me being annoyed knowing it can do better.

my main worry is what happens with a berger or similar bullet if i shoot a 500 lb black bear with it or hit bone on a deer or a bear of that size? that is not being unrealistic either with how the bear have been around here lately.

I am hesitant with x bullets, as they seem to not open up that well on deer, and also get very expensive, or when it comes down to it, do i really need two different loads, one for deer and one for bear?

if so, again what does a berger or similar do on deer at closer range, I only ask because they do seem to shoot so much better.

 

[longrangefreek]

I have a Savage Model 12 also and I shoot 185 grn Berger. they shoot great from short to long ranges, atleast from what I have seen. shoot 67 grns H4831SC with a FED 215 primer and 185 grn berger. shoots 3 shot groups within a dime at 100 yrd. shoots 2950 fps. My buddy has the same rifle and shoots berger 210's with RL22 and also gets great results. I do believe he shoot 66 grns of powder and also uses FED 215.

 

[liltank]

here is my next question, as I said it is not really a long range gun anymore, I am curious about the bergers. I know what a 168 a-max does on wet newspaper at 50 yards and i was pretty unimpressed, and do not think it would do very much to an animal they pretty much exploded on impact and did not penetrate in my tests anyway. what will the bergers do?

this gun will mainly see shots in the 75 yard range, out to 400 max, so I do not need fantastic accuracy but want it to be as good as possible, and part of that is just me being annoyed knowing it can do better.

my main worry is what happens with a berger or similar bullet if i shoot a 500 lb black bear with it or hit bone on a deer or a bear of that size? that is not being unrealistic either with how the bear have been around here lately.

I am hesitant with x bullets, as they seem to not open up that well on deer, and also get very expensive, or when it comes down to it, do i really need two different loads, one for deer and one for bear?

if so, again what does a berger or similar do on deer at closer range, I only ask because they do seem to shoot so much better.

My suggestion for those distances would be something in the Accubond and Barnes. They will expand at those ranges and hold together. The Hornady GMX, SST, and Nosler E-tip get the nod as well. Those are great bullets for good penetration and expansion at close range. The new Speer Deep Curl would also be a good one to look at.

Tank

 

[timeless61]

thanks the Hornady SST, is that just a groove in them or is that for seating depth with crimp?

next, how do sierra gamekings work on game? some say they are very thin jacketed and blow up. I would be using the 180 or 200 grain. thanks again

 

[liltank]

thanks the Hornady SST, is that just a groove in them or is that for seating depth with crimp?

next, how do sierra gamekings work on game? some say they are very thin jacketed and blow up. I would be using the 180 or 200 grain. thanks again

The groove is for seating depth and crimping. You don't need to set to that depth though. The SGK should work just fine. I have had good luck w/o any issues.

Tank

 

[BIG MO]

I have been very pleased with the performance of Bergers on big game. One elk broadside @150yds with 300WSM 190 Berger right through the heart lungs with exit, elk went 40 yards and down. A big Missouri 12pt buck quartering to to me @150yds took a 180 berger from my 7mag through the shoulder no exit and dropped straight down. A mature 8pt Buck broadside @200yds took a 150 berger from the 270WSM through the heart lungs with exit went 15yds. Another big 10pt Mo buck broadside @100yds took a 180 berger from the 7mag through the heart lungs with exit went ten yards.

I think they work just dandy at closer ranges. I practice out to 1000yds regularly but most of my kills over the years have been under 400yds. I just started using the Bergers the last few years and have shot a fair amount of big game with other bullets. I have had numerous elk and deer run 80-100yds after taking a bullet through the heart lung area. One bull elk took a .338 210 nosler partition through the heart lungs went 110 yds, a cow elk took a .338 200 ballistic tip through the heart lungs and went 80yds. I have had alot of similar experiences with deer. So far the Bergers seem to put them down a little quicker. A bullets killing power is not always measured by all out penetration. If that were the case we would all be shooting full metal jacket bullets.

"They won't run away from a Berger" may have some truth to it.

 

[OKIE2]

The groove is for seating depth and crimping. You don't need to set to that depth though. The SGK should work just fine. I have had good luck w/o any issues.

Tank

the groove is not for seating depth it is to stop the jacket from peeling back any farther as the sst is an interbond bullet now they are about the same as the nosler accubond.
according to Nosler the most accurate powder per bullet weight is
150 grain imr 4064 58.5 gr 3155 fps
165/168 grain h380 60.0 gr 2940 fps
180 grain n550 61.0 gr 2976 fps
200 grain imr 7828 68.0 gr 2896 fps
220 grain imr 4831 58.0 gr 2561 fps

 

[Jumpalot]

the groove is not for seating depth it is to stop the jacket from peeling back any farther as the sst is an interbond bullet now they are about the same as the nosler accubond.
according to Nosler the most accurate powder per bullet weight is
150 grain imr 4064 58.5 gr 3155 fps
165/168 grain h380 60.0 gr 2940 fps
180 grain n550 61.0 gr 2976 fps
200 grain imr 7828 68.0 gr 2896 fps
220 grain imr 4831 58.0 gr 2561 fps

Where are you getting this info?? The cannelure is not for stoppiing expansion. It's for crimping if needed. The InterLock is inside the jacket and not visible from the outside. When did the SST become bonded? This is the first I've heard of this and couldn't find anything on Hornady's website.

 

[OKIE2]

Where are you getting this info?? The cannelure is not for stoppiing expansion. It's for crimping if needed. The InterLock is inside the jacket and not visible from the outside. When did the SST become bonded? This is the first I've heard of this and couldn't find anything on Hornady's website.

I'm sorry I meant interlock
264 129 GR SST HORNADY 100 CT
Hornady / Bullets / Rifle / .264 Diameter
Item #: HOR26202
Qty In Stock: 11
[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, sans-serif]Hornady 264/6.5mm Caliber .264" Diameter[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, sans-serif]129 grain Super Shock Tipped Interlock Bullet[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, sans-serif]Ballistic Coefficient: 0.485[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, sans-serif]Sectional Density: 0.264[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, sans-serif]100 bullets per box [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, sans-serif]Price: $26.69[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

 

[bigngreen]

In the WSM's I've loaded and friends load case density likes to be right at full to compressed for best accuracy, slower powders get the nod over all. R22, H1000, Retumbo all good. I load a series of primer tests for sure on all of them, most like the Fed215, I've seen this make a huge difference in the WSM. R17 so far has been a huge disappointment for me but some seem to get it to run, I love it in the 243 case size stuff but the WSM just choke on it for me.

Tank, what kinda case failures are you getting, WSM brass is rugged stuff and I've found that you can push it hard if your head space is right on but long head space is the death on them, specially Win and Norma. Rem brass is the most forgiving in what I've ran.

 

[liltank]

In the WSM's I've loaded and friends load case density likes to be right at full to compressed for best accuracy, slower powders get the nod over all. R22, H1000, Retumbo all good. I load a series of primer tests for sure on all of them, most like the Fed215, I've seen this make a huge difference in the WSM. R17 so far has been a huge disappointment for me but some seem to get it to run, I love it in the 243 case size stuff but the WSM just choke on it for me.

Tank, what kinda case failures are you getting, WSM brass is rugged stuff and I've found that you can push it hard if your head space is right on but long head space is the death on them, specially Win and Norma. Rem brass is the most forgiving in what I've ran.

First loading sets to chamber. Second loading neck size only. Third loading have to bump shoulders. This is where my accuracy starts to fall off. I even anneal at this point. Fourth and Fifth firings are about as much as I can get and they become unusable. I've been using RL17 and have been happy with it initially. It has worked great for my .308 Winny. I was going to try some slower powders such as Mag Pro and IMR 7828, but since decided to just go back to the Winny for now. It would be interesting to see what the new Superformance powder from Hodgdon will do w/ WSM cartridges. I figured if I can push a 185 Berger out of a 28" tube, I'm still good to 775yrds with a .308 for deer. I may play around with some lighter bullets w/ higher velocities and see if I can get an additional 20 or 30 yards.

My current load is 60.0grns RL17 w/ Berger 210's. I get a 3/4 to 1/2 MOA for the first 2 or 3 firings, w/ 10fps avg in 10 shot string. A Std deviation of about 7. My current velocity is 2896 w/ a factory Savage 26" tube with a break installed. Initially it shows little signs of pressure, but as I shoot the pressure seems to go up.

Tank

 

[BIG MO]

With the heavy bullets, I run RL22 and F215M primers in my 270WSM and 300WSM with top tier velocity and sub-moa performance to 1000yds.

 

[bigngreen]

Tank, that's interesting. In my 270 WSM I found about 8 shots and Win brass was done and about 3-4 I started having accuracy issues. I FL size every shot and anneal every 3. Found Rem brass far better, 20 plus loading with constancy. I'm not a target shooter but I do shoot 6 shot groups at 1030yrd quite often just to improve my skills and if I'm on the conditions I stay in the 3/4 moa average with one in the 5-6 in range every once in a while and one in the 1 moa range every once in a while also, which I consider not bad for a hunting rifle. Also a Savage model 12 so that really helps
I did have to set the head spacing back quit a bit on this rifle to get it to really start humming and slow down munching brass!!

 

[OKIE2]

with a Savage why was you not running 0 head space to start with
and just neck sizing anyway? thats tha advantage of the barrel nut.
With a Savage I always set my full length die to bottom out on shell holder
then set my head space with that case then you can just neck size after that.