I've shot antelope through elk with them. It's a 215 grain bullet. Can't imagine they won't kill a whitetail. Find Broz's thread on this bullet. I think at last count, they were at 30+ one shot kills.
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300 win H1000 Norma brass
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I've shot antelope through elk with them. It's a 215 grain bullet. Can't imagine they won't kill a whitetail. Find Broz's thread on this bullet. I think at last count, they were at 30+ one shot kills.
barefooter56
Well-Known Member
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- Nov 10, 2014
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jmcarrol,
Look at the bullet as a tool. One size and load MAY not be good or work for different game and hunting situations. We do not recommend our 215 HYBRID be used as a hunting bullet ( although some do) because of the smaller wound channel due to the slightly thicker jacket of the target bullets over the hunting. You MAY have to work up 2 loads here. Suggest the 168 grain CLASSIC HUNTER for your short range Whitetail run at a lower powder charge/ velocity accuracy node . ( Less recoil and less chance of shallow bullet expansion). The bullet is designed to be used at magazine length and its hybrid design makes it very easy to tune for. Use the Berger 185, 190 or 210 Hunting VLD and Classic Hunter bullets for your Elk hunting at longer ranges. More work doing 2 loads but may pay big dividends. Hope this helps!
Look at the bullet as a tool. One size and load MAY not be good or work for different game and hunting situations. We do not recommend our 215 HYBRID be used as a hunting bullet ( although some do) because of the smaller wound channel due to the slightly thicker jacket of the target bullets over the hunting. You MAY have to work up 2 loads here. Suggest the 168 grain CLASSIC HUNTER for your short range Whitetail run at a lower powder charge/ velocity accuracy node . ( Less recoil and less chance of shallow bullet expansion). The bullet is designed to be used at magazine length and its hybrid design makes it very easy to tune for. Use the Berger 185, 190 or 210 Hunting VLD and Classic Hunter bullets for your Elk hunting at longer ranges. More work doing 2 loads but may pay big dividends. Hope this helps!
Broz
Well-Known Member
I have taken a fair share of game with Berger bullets both labeled Hunting and non. Especially the 210's and 215's Remember I switched from a 210 HVLD to a 215 Hybrid in one of my best hunting rifles. One thing I can tell you for sure is I would not worry about the jacket thickness of the 215 if it is a little thicker causing any problems with expansion. Especially at closer distances. In fact they will out expand a Berger 210 "Hunting VLD" in leaps and bounds. That was my biggest complaint was too much expansion in close after the first few big game animals taken. . But after more in the field terminal data was gathered I got over that. We had 26" of penetration on a bull elk and it made if completely through the far shoulder. Sure the bullet was fragmented, that's what it is designed to do, but lead and jacket made it that far.
There are huge distinctive differences in a 190 HVLD, 210 HVLD and the 215 Hybrid. The 215 Hybrid has a void in the tip that is completely free of lead and is .400" deep. This design has a great effect on terminal performance and I hope Berger will study the terminal performance results of this design. I like what I see and they are still expanding on soft antelope even at 1285 yards and impact velocities of 1700 fps.
As for thicker jackets and wound channels. This theory is non existent with the tip design of the 215. We are 24 and zero for kills on big game with the 215's. Every single entrance was text book .308 going in and soon had a very large wound channel on the closer shots under 500 yards. Vitals destroyed. The smallest exit holes we had were golf ball sized.
My opinion or factual data comes from 24 consecutive kills on big game and many different distances from the same rifle, my 300 win. 24 cold bore one shot kills. Many perfectly placed, some not. Not one animal tracked or needed a finishing shot. This may not be enough data to set something in stone, but it is more than enough for me as I gutted them all.
Berger has a responsibility to label their products accordingly until they have adequate data to prove the terminal performance of any bullet they make. This is the responsible thing to do. However, there is tons of data coming in from people that are hunting with the 215's and more are loading them to hunt next season. I would be very surprised it Berger is not documenting this and dong their own research on the 215 and why it performs so well as a hunting bullet.
Now, above all. You as a hunter need to use a bullet that you know how to use. There are some bullet that work best close at higher impact velocities, those will have their own short comings at longer distances. The same with the bullets that work best at longer distance, they may not do exactly what we want up close. But any will ALL kill when placed properly. I choose my bullets to do the best job at longer distances, shoot best from my rifles and have the best BC to help me place them in windy conditions.
Pick the bullet you feel works best for you, know how it works under all conditions, and place it to your best advantage.
For what its worth I grew up in Iowa hunting WT deer in IA and MO. I have taken a few large deer some from bean fields some from timber stands. If I was to go back for a trophy deer hunt I know what I would take to do it. But by all means you need to have confidence in what you carry, so choose your bullet accordingly.
Good Hunting.
Jeff
PS: my biggest elk to date was taken with a Berger. The one in my signature was with a 210 HVLD at about 200 yards from a 30-378 Weatherby and the biggest (photo added) from a 300 win and a 215 at 635 yards. The 215 only took one.
There are huge distinctive differences in a 190 HVLD, 210 HVLD and the 215 Hybrid. The 215 Hybrid has a void in the tip that is completely free of lead and is .400" deep. This design has a great effect on terminal performance and I hope Berger will study the terminal performance results of this design. I like what I see and they are still expanding on soft antelope even at 1285 yards and impact velocities of 1700 fps.
As for thicker jackets and wound channels. This theory is non existent with the tip design of the 215. We are 24 and zero for kills on big game with the 215's. Every single entrance was text book .308 going in and soon had a very large wound channel on the closer shots under 500 yards. Vitals destroyed. The smallest exit holes we had were golf ball sized.
My opinion or factual data comes from 24 consecutive kills on big game and many different distances from the same rifle, my 300 win. 24 cold bore one shot kills. Many perfectly placed, some not. Not one animal tracked or needed a finishing shot. This may not be enough data to set something in stone, but it is more than enough for me as I gutted them all.
Berger has a responsibility to label their products accordingly until they have adequate data to prove the terminal performance of any bullet they make. This is the responsible thing to do. However, there is tons of data coming in from people that are hunting with the 215's and more are loading them to hunt next season. I would be very surprised it Berger is not documenting this and dong their own research on the 215 and why it performs so well as a hunting bullet.
Now, above all. You as a hunter need to use a bullet that you know how to use. There are some bullet that work best close at higher impact velocities, those will have their own short comings at longer distances. The same with the bullets that work best at longer distance, they may not do exactly what we want up close. But any will ALL kill when placed properly. I choose my bullets to do the best job at longer distances, shoot best from my rifles and have the best BC to help me place them in windy conditions.
Pick the bullet you feel works best for you, know how it works under all conditions, and place it to your best advantage.
For what its worth I grew up in Iowa hunting WT deer in IA and MO. I have taken a few large deer some from bean fields some from timber stands. If I was to go back for a trophy deer hunt I know what I would take to do it. But by all means you need to have confidence in what you carry, so choose your bullet accordingly.
Good Hunting.
Jeff
PS: my biggest elk to date was taken with a Berger. The one in my signature was with a 210 HVLD at about 200 yards from a 30-378 Weatherby and the biggest (photo added) from a 300 win and a 215 at 635 yards. The 215 only took one.
Last edited:
barefooter56
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2014
- Messages
- 913
Jeff,
Spot on. Thank you. And thank you for using our bullets.
Spot on. Thank you. And thank you for using our bullets.
