300 Ultra and 200 Accubond Results

[Moman]

I would at least borrow a runout guage so you can check the concentricity. That's really what it sounds like to me.

 

[Autorotate19]

Can you explain run out to me and what type of gage would you recommend?

 

[Moman]

There is an active thread right now in the Reloading section. Lots of good discussion that will explain it pretty well.

 

[Autorotate19]

Ill check it out. As far as my grouping is it common for a gun to like one particular load way more than anything else? I mean there is now comparison with any other load.

 

[Autorotate19]

I read it but im still kinda lost. So your talking about crooked bullets in cases and crooked cases or what?

 

[Moman]

Briefly: Think of it as a circle within a circle. All centered, or concentric. Everyone has that one friend that we call eccentric, right, just a little bit off. I guess our well rounded friends we could call concentric.

If you could imagine a quarter lying flat on a table, now if you were to place a nickel on top of that quarter and precisely center it. Now, place a dime on top of that nickel and precisely center it. They would all be concentric. A circle within a circle. Of course we are just eyeballing and would need some type of tool to accurately measure the spacing of this.

Think of the quarter as the base of your case, the nickel as the neck of your case, and the dime as the bullet seated into the neck. If any of these are off, not concentric, they can lead to poor accuracy and yes, two shots close and one flyer.

Lots of things can lead to this. Poor quality of brass (inconsistent neck variation), die out of adjustment, expander ball not centered, resizing die overworking brass, not trimming and squaring up cases on new brass. The list goes on and believe me I am no expert to know all of the causes.

I hope this helps.

 

[Tyler Kemp]

That was a real good explanation, Moman!

 

[Autorotate19]

I get it now thanks for the help. So the RCBS one doesn't work good enough? You guys would recommend the sinclair one? I also have 50 peices of nosler brass. I know its way better quality than the Rem. How much difference can I expect in my load if I use it instead of the remington?

 

[Moman]

I get it now thanks for the help. So the RCBS one doesn't work good enough? You guys would recommend the sinclair one? I also have 50 peices of nosler brass. I know its way better quality than the Rem. How much difference can I expect in my load if I use it instead of the remington?

IMO, the RCBS works fairly well but after seeing the Sinclair, that is the one I wish I had. It looks like it would be more precise in reading runout. I like the bearing setup. I also really like the Sinclair case neck sorting tool. It's one of the first things I do to sort through my brass.

I haven't been able to get Nosler brass yet, but I have some on order. I've heard that the primer pockets loosen a little quicker, but I would think the tolerances have to be better than the Rem. I would have thought the Nosler would be pretty good overall for concentrictiy, but it would have to be gauged.

The thing with runout is that it usually is either due to tools or brass. If your brass is good, you have to look at the tools you use. Everything from the press to the dies. Runout gauges aren't something you will use every day, but when you have a problem like this, it's nice to gauge your brass at every step during the loading process to determine if something in the process is causing runout.

An example is last week I did some work up loads in my 300 RUM, they were all over the place. I thought about switching powders or primers, but in the end it was all due to a runout issue. Once I sorted the next batch of loads, my standard 300 RUM Sendero shot four in a 0.4, and the next three in a 0.25. All 7 of these were at the same POI. So, my problem was solved with this.

 

[HoytemanPA]

I found out that my first two will always touch and the third one was the flyer.... it doesnt really like anything at all other than 94grs. ....

Is this a sporter?

If the first two always touch with 94 grains. You have a very accurate 2 shot long range hunting rifle. If it takes more than two accurate shots at extended ranges, you are most likely shooting past your capabilities anyways. Start changing the game to printing two shots at different yardages and see how much better you like it.

In my opinion concentricity is a nice thing to chase to keep occupied in off times when not shooting but the fact of "first two always touch" takes loading procedures out of the equation and heat into it. Then having narrowed it to heat, bedding would be my next step to get another round or two added to the two shot cluster.

Don't get me wrong, I can tinker on brass/load procedures with the best of them but my expectations of sporter magnum extended round accuracy is a bit less than it once was.

If your intentions are paper punching for several shots at extended ranges buy a heavy barrel 6br or 6.5x284. Then tinker till your hearts content.

I have had nearly the same results as you in two Factory Rem 700's with sporter barrels on them. Interestingly enough they both ran 94 gr Retumbo with 200 Accubonds, FedGM215s Although most of the time it is a three cluster and then any additional rounds start walking. Both have killed deer between 700 and 850.

Over the course of following this LR passion. All of my LR rifles now have heavy custom barrels on them. I no longer chase visons of having a sporter shoot great for many rounds.

My general expectation for magnum cartridges is factory sporter 3 shots, Varmint Barrel 5 Shots. Heavy custom as many as I dare to heat up.

 

[Moman]

Is this a sporter?

my expectations of sporter magnum extended round accuracy is a bit less than it once was.

I have had nearly the same results as you in two Factory Rem 700's with sporter barrels on them. Interestingly enough they both ran 94 gr Retumbo with 200 Accubonds, FedGM215s Although most of the time it is a three cluster and then any additional rounds start walking. Both have killed deer between 700 and 850.

HoytemanPA brings up some good points. If I remember right you have a Christenson/Rem barrel. Not sure how heat sensitive they are but someone here will be able to shed some light on it.

Ovastafford, I really don't want to sway this thread anymore in the direction of what I think it is. I'm just one mans opinion and it does sound similiar to the problem I was having. I would however find a friend or someone at the gun range who owns a guage and check runout, but also be aware that this in reality could be a number of different things.

Maybe just take another read through the thread on runout, if nothing else, at some point you most likely will be faced with it.

 

[LongBomber]

I have the nosler brass, in both 300rum and 22-250. It is way more consistent than the rem brass. In the 300 the case capacity is slightly less, I run 94.5gr in Nosler brass and 95 in rem brass to get the same speed. I use cci mag primer.

The nosler brass is softer, and the pockets are pretty much done at reload 5. In my 22-250 I get 8 reloads with Hornady brass, and only 5 with Nosler. In the 300rum I get 5 with nosler and 10 with rem. I have one piece of rem brass I experimented with, has 21 reloads on it... decided to make it a dummy round before anything bad happened...

If it was me I would bed the rifle, and check your case runout. For what the components cost to bang away, bedding the rifle is not very expensive.

 

[Autorotate19]

I dont know anyone who has a gage at the moment, but ill look into getting one. As far as the first two touching im pretty happy with that. I was thinking the same thing as far as if it takes more than two shots I shouldnt be shooting at it. The most im expecting out of this rifle is 1,000 yards for hunting so its acceptable for now. Ill shoot at farther ranges when I can but do a lot of guys shoot cold bore groups? Where you shoot one shot and let the bore completely cool down and shoot another? I might try some of the nosler out and see what happens. Longbomber, you said they hold .5 gr less than rem so I should try out 93.5grs???

 

[ATH]

How long are you waiting between shots in a group? Rather than putting the 4 rounds of the group through a barrel of different temp, try firing 1-2 shots then going for groups by waiting 4-5min between shots. Unless your temps are hot this will allow the barrel to return to roughly the same temp for each shot and be more consistent.

Also, rather than firing one group then moving on to the next, randomly fire one shot of one group then move to another, moving back and forth until all groups are shot. Then if there is an error you are introducing it will be spread across all groups and not isolated to ruining a single group.

This will also eliminate those boring 20min wait times. I get MUCH better results this way.