300 Gr. Berger Hybrid @ 1,930 yards

[kellyzier]

I only clean it when it tells me it needs it. About 200 rounds or so.
I'ts a Pac-nor stainless Super match with a really snug chamber.
I am only loading 89.5 gr. Retumbo for 2,750. Can go a little hotter but my E.S. is 4 fps! Thats for 15 shots.
All the Pac-nor barrels I've owned have lasted 2-3 times more shots than what others running different barrels got.
I don't over clean, I NEVER get them hot! 4 shots max! then cool it off. I use the slowest powder that I can use that gives me the lowest E.S. with acceptable velocity. Velocity won't make you a better shot, only RDR will do that. (rounds down range)...
And I Chryo all my barrels. Some say it's useless some don't. I've been doing it since they invented the idea. Easier cleaning, and accurate longer between cleanings.
I haven't used any treatment yet, but have read a bit on "Gun Juice" and will give it a try on my next barrel.
Whats the velocity with your Lapua and Berger?

Hey there,,,any idea how the Retumbo does with temp changes? H1000 is awesome regarding temps varations,,how's this poweder do??

kz

 

[jmden]

Berger Bulletin

Check it out. Some very interesting updates from Litz...

 

[canyonman1]

I hope they don't toughen it up too much,or long range reliability for hunting will go out the window. I have recovered jackets that are perfect in my eyes, for terminal performance at long range. After an impact velocity of around 1,300 fps. or so @ 1,930 yds, into a sandstone type rock, they are serrated into 3 long, distinct petals, with minimal lead attached, but malible enough to bend with your fingers. Should be perfect in game...
I use JBM Ballistics and the .455 G7 BC. With a velocity of 2750 fps. is perfect at the elevation and for the conditions I shot in last week out to 1,930. I shot from 800 to 1,930 on 2 occasions and the drops and comeups matched perfect.
Shot 4" 3 shots center left bull first time out so something has to be right on.
I know the second day I was 3moa low with first 2 shots, but it was also 20* cooler and with higher pressure.
10* temp change will be about 1moa @ 1,000 yds. and will increase with distance, so I don't think the 3moa drop is too far out of wack at nearly 2,000 yds.

 

[kellyzier]

I only clean it when it tells me it needs it. About 200 rounds or so.
I'ts a Pac-nor stainless Super match with a really snug chamber.
I am only loading 89.5 gr. Retumbo for 2,750. Can go a little hotter but my E.S. is 4 fps! Thats for 15 shots.
All the Pac-nor barrels I've owned have lasted 2-3 times more shots than what others running different barrels got.
I don't over clean, I NEVER get them hot! 4 shots max! then cool it off. I use the slowest powder that I can use that gives me the lowest E.S. with acceptable velocity. Velocity won't make you a better shot, only RDR will do that. (rounds down range)...
And I Chryo all my barrels. Some say it's useless some don't. I've been doing it since they invented the idea. Easier cleaning, and accurate longer between cleanings.
I haven't used any treatment yet, but have read a bit on "Gun Juice" and will give it a try on my next barrel.
Whats the velocity with your Lapua and Berger?

Canyonman,
Were you seating the 300 gr bergers on the lands or 10 thou off it? Also, what primers were you using? And you still having good luck with them?

zman

 

[bigbuck]

Canyonman1 ,

Did you do all of smithing work to your rifle ?? If not who did it ?
Looks like you've got a tack driver !

Good shooting.

BigBuck

 

[canyonman1]

Retumbo is very stable temp. wise. I use Winchester mag. primers with the Berger. Fed. 215's opened the groups 1/2 moa, and E.S. went up, wich is totally opposite of usual.
A guy by the name of Mark Skaggs fits my barrels if I don't have Chris at Pac-nor do it. He is a gunsmith here locally. He's also a machinest at Erickson Air Crane, he builds parts for helicopter engines. I do every thing else like trigger work, bedding, etc. myself.
I am seating the Bergers .300" off the lands. It will shoot the same touching or close to or where I have it now, so I stay away when possible.
Some benchrest shooters prefer a big jump for long range consistancy and low E.S... That has been my experience with this bullet. They will also settle for a larger group size at closer range (100 yds.) and say it will tighten up over distance. My 338 Edge pokes em' in at under 1/2 MOA @ 100 yds. and stays there for quite a distance.
The 2 4" groups I shot in the photos at the begining of this thread are .1979 MOA @ 1,930 yards. Granted thats only 3 shots, and I will be shooting for a 10 shot group when this weather warms up a bit.
One other note:
I used the new B.C. that Bryan Litz suggested and confirmed it with 25 rounds from 700 yards to 1,930 yards. I will keep using the original B.C. of .455 G7. The new one does'nt work for me...

 

[kellyzier]

I hope they don't toughen it up too much,or long range reliability for hunting will go out the window. I have recovered jackets that are perfect in my eyes, for terminal performance at long range. After an impact velocity of around 1,300 fps. or so @ 1,930 yds, into a sandstone type rock, they are serrated into 3 long, distinct petals, with minimal lead attached, but malible enough to bend with your fingers. Should be perfect in game...
I use JBM Ballistics and the .455 G7 BC. With a velocity of 2750 fps. is perfect at the elevation and for the conditions I shot in last week out to 1,930. I shot from 800 to 1,930 on 2 occasions and the drops and comeups matched perfect.
Shot 4" 3 shots center left bull first time out so something has to be right on.
I know the second day I was 3moa low with first 2 shots, but it was also 20* cooler and with higher pressure.
10* temp change will be about 1moa @ 1,000 yds. and will increase with distance, so I don't think the 3moa drop is too far out of wack at nearly 2,000 yds.

Canyonman,
You said you are seeing a 1moa change for 10 degrees of temp change at 1,000 yards. What elevation are you seeing this at? My night force xbal only gives me a 1/4 moa change for the same thing. Im using 4,000 for elevation and 2,800 fps. 1 moa change for 1,000 yards at a 10 degree change is quite drastic!!!!

zman

 

[kellyzier]

Retumbo is very stable temp. wise. I use Winchester mag. primers with the Berger. Fed. 215's opened the groups 1/2 moa, and E.S. went up, wich is totally opposite of usual.
A guy by the name of Mark Skaggs fits my barrels if I don't have Chris at Pac-nor do it. He is a gunsmith here locally. He's also a machinest at Erickson Air Crane, he builds parts for helicopter engines. I do every thing else like trigger work, bedding, etc. myself.
I am seating the Bergers .300" off the lands. It will shoot the same touching or close to or where I have it now, so I stay away when possible.
Some benchrest shooters prefer a big jump for long range consistancy and low E.S... That has been my experience with this bullet. They will also settle for a larger group size at closer range (100 yds.) and say it will tighten up over distance. My 338 Edge pokes em' in at under 1/2 MOA @ 100 yds. and stays there for quite a distance.
The 2 4" groups I shot in the photos at the begining of this thread are .1979 MOA @ 1,930 yards. Granted thats only 3 shots, and I will be shooting for a 10 shot group when this weather warms up a bit.
One other note:
I used the new B.C. that Bryan Litz suggested and confirmed it with 25 rounds from 700 yards to 1,930 yards. I will keep using the original B.C. of .455 G7. The new one does'nt work for me...

Very interesting stuff here....You are right on the money about 100 yard groups...Alot of folks get stuck on 100 yards and don't realize that it really counts way out there. So what distance do you count on for groups?? Alot of guys like 700 or 800 because little subtle changes in wind way out there can really screw with your groups....

zman

 

[canyonman1]

I like 1,000 yds. Thats midway between my barrel and where I like to shoot.
But I shoot at known and unknown distance from barrel to 2,000 yards, once I know the load is consistantly accurate. I don't worry to much about punching paper. I shoot at 1/2 to 2 moa targets of rock or steele. I spend most of my time doping the wind and pulling the trigger not worrying about what some computer program is telling me my bullet should be doing. I only crunch the #'s at the beginning of load developement, and to get my drops and windage. Once the load is established, I shoot it, ALOT. In all weather conditions, hot or cold, windy or calm, dry or wet.
I also shoot alot of rock chucks in the summer. In fact I'm leaving Friday to spend 10 - 12 days in eastern Oregon doing just that. I will have a few pics and will report on how the 300 gr. Berger Hybrid does on Vermin and Yote's at long range when I get home.

 

[bigbuck]

I like 1,000 yds. Thats midway between my barrel and where I like to shoot.
But I shoot at known and unknown distance from barrel to 2,000 yards, once I know the load is consistantly accurate. I don't worry to much about punching paper. I shoot at 1/2 to 2 moa targets of rock or steele. I spend most of my time doping the wind and pulling the trigger not worrying about what some computer program is telling me my bullet should be doing. I only crunch the #'s at the beginning of load developement, and to get my drops and windage. Once the load is established, I shoot it, ALOT. In all weather conditions, hot or cold, windy or calm, dry or wet.
I also shoot alot of rock chucks in the summer. In fact I'm leaving Friday to spend 10 - 12 days in eastern Oregon doing just that. I will have a few pics and will report on how the 300 gr. Berger Hybrid does on Vermin and Yote's at long range when I get home.

I bet that 300 GRAIN BERGER is nearly as long as the rock chuck is when he stands to his hind feet LOL

BigBuck

 

[canyonman1]

He'll be half as long when I'm done with him! Or maybe twice as long but half as heavy!
He stands there to long and he may just dissapear in a red mist!gun)

 

[bigbuck]

He'll be half as long when I'm done with him! Or maybe twice as long but half as heavy!
He stands there to long and he may just dissapear in a red mist!gun)

LOL please remember to post pics that is if their is anything left .....

Go Berger

 

[Broz]

Canyonman1, Great shooting!

I would like to ask a few Q's?

For a cold bore shot , do you dial in for spin drift or Coriolis affect?

Anxious to hear your answe here.

Thanks!
Jeff

 

[canyonman1]

Yes. At 1,000 I go 1moa Left before I dope the wind. At 1,930 I go 3moa Left.
Then If the wind counteracts what I have on the scope, I will take it out.
The reason I put it on first is so I don't forget about it.
Nothing like droping the hammer and see your shot go 20' to the right.