3 groove Barrels

[J E Custom]

The slow twist and heavy based bullet will help you alot, you should not see many of the issues we are discussing with the 3 groove barrels with that combo. As you said, time will tell on barrel life but with that bullet you should get as much as possible out of the combo.

Keep us posted.

One question, what will you be using this rifle for? Just curious.

Kirby

Anything smaller than a deer. And if it shoots well Turkey heads at long
distance.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Fiftydriver]

I can see where hyper velocity would be very useful trying to remove the pumpkin off a old toms neck!!!

Interesting for sure.

Keep us posted to your test results!!!

 

[J E Custom]

Thanks very much for all of the responses !!!!!!

I am swimming in uncharted waters with this project and wanted to know
as much up front as I could and give the rifle the best chance possible.

The reason I didn't name the barrel maker was to get unbiased replies and I
appreciate everyones comments.

Hears is the build.

Action = Remingtion 40x single shot.
Barrel = Lilja 3 groove .224 cal 1 in 15 twist 26'' or 27'' long.
Cartridge = 223 WSSM.
Bullet weight = 40gr to 50gr.
Bullet type/brand = Open for suggestions (Velocity will be between 4200 ft/sec
and 4400 ft/sec).
Scope will be ether 6.5x20x50 or maby a 8.5x25x50.

I realize barrel life wont be great but thats why I though the 3 groove would work
best and I can set the barrel back if accuracy falls off.

This rifle will be for little critters and hopefully I can see the hit through the scope.

If it doesent meet my expectations I will rebarrel with a 1 in 12 twist and shoot 55 and
60 gr bullets.

Any comments on bullet choices will be a great help. I had though about using a fmj
or a banded solid.

I will post the results of this build as soon as I finnish the build and testing.

Thanks again to everyone and keep the comments coming.

J E CUSTOM

Well I promised that I would update everyone on this biuld and finally got to do some
testing today.

I started with the 60gr bullets to see if they would stabilize because the 1 in 15 twist
is recomended for 55gr to 40gr and I wanted to find the upper limmits in bullet weight.

The 3 groove barrel performed very good and appears not to foul bad like Kirby said.

Group size was not that good ( Just under 1 MOA ) .921 but velocity for the 60gr bullet
was = 3917,3921 and 3910 ft/sec with a SD of 0006 and avg 3915 ft/sec.

Velocity was over 100 ft/sec faster than my listed load and I'm assuming that the barrel
has a lot to do with that.

The load was hot and bolt lift was stiff but signs of pressure were not bad.

Now I will load the lighter bullets ( 40gr,45gr,50gr and 55gr ) to find out what it likes.

If the velocity increase holds up I should be able to reach 4500 ft/sec with the 40gr
ballistic tip ( Don't know why I would want to ,but it is an experimental rifle so I will
try).

When I get the accuracy that I want I will post pictures of the rifle and targets with
the load and performance data.

These velocitys were measured on a oehler 35p crony and are not dangerous but I will load
down about 1gr once I reach the pucker factor on each load .

Just an update if anyone is interested
J E CUSTOM

 

[Long Time Long Ranger]

JE, I have done many 3 groove barrels over the past ten years. All of the ones I have done shot very well. I don't know that any of them were in the velocity range you are talking about so my experience may not help you. Most of the ones I did were in the big 338's and they have performed very well. During 1998-99 I did dozens of 338-300 ultrmags on 3 groove barrels and all those guys still bragg about how great they are and the long elk kills every year. Some of those along with the 338 lapuas and 338-378 wby's I did during those years are among the fastest ones I have ever seen. Some of the 338-300 ultramags are getting 2900-3000 fps with the 300 matchking which is a hundred fps faster than most all other accuracy loads in other rifles. I know many of these guys have over a thousand rounds through them now.

 

[davewilson]

JE, thanks for the update. i considered something of this nature a couple years ago but had other builds that were more important. you mentioned the banded solids and this is what i was going to build for. GS makes a 40gr that is just pure death to anything when launched in the 4k range. i remember Gerard saying he might be able to make something a bit lighter. i'm sure you could push the banded solids a 100 feet or so faster than any jacketed bullet. would be an interesting and possibly educational comparison especially sense you're in the "cutting edge" type of experiment. i was going to build a 22saum.

 

[J E Custom]

JE, thanks for the update. i considered something of this nature a couple years ago but had other builds that were more important. you mentioned the banded solids and this is what i was going to build for. GS makes a 40gr that is just pure death to anything when launched in the 4k range. i remember Gerard saying he might be able to make something a bit lighter. i'm sure you could push the banded solids a 100 feet or so faster than any jacketed bullet. would be an interesting and possibly educational comparison especially sense you're in the "cutting edge" type of experiment. i was going to build a 22saum.

Dave.

That sounds like a barn burner ( A 22 Saum ) .

With allmost 18gr powder capacity increase over the WSSM I not sure the bullets will hold together.

Kirby has done a lot of high velocity cartriges and maby he could shed some light on a biuld
like you are talking about.

The highest velocity that I have heard about was some testing done by Weatherby for
uncle sam using a 378 case necked down to a bullet weighing 70grs ( Don't know what
caliber ) That acheved 5700 ft/sec.

So faster may be possible. 4500 ft/sec seemed hard to get , but if you neck down a 50 cal
to shoot a phonograph needle maby not. Ha Ha Ha.

J E CUSTOM

 

[davewilson]

[QUOTE=J E Custom;
With allmost 18gr powder capacity increase over the WSSM I not sure the bullets will hold together.

the banded solids will hold together, especially with a gain twist barrel.

 

[J E Custom]

Dave

What I was talking about was the bands being sheared off at that velocity .

but you are probably right with the right barrel or a really slow twist.

Any way it is something to think about.

J E CUSTOM

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Dave

What I was talking about was the bands being sheared off at that velocity .

but you are probably right with the right barrel or a really slow twist.

Any way it is something to think about.

J E CUSTOM

J E CUSTOM,

I was looking at GS's web site, and they have load data for a 22-06 easling driving the 40g hv at 4700fps. I think you should try it so I can live vicariously through you.

Steve

 

[NesikaChad]

We did a few of these at Nesika and didn't have much luck with them. The head sales guy (Richard) fussed with one for awhile on a BR rig, but I don't think he ever really got much out of it. I hear that certain bullets love em and others. . .well. . .not so much.

I'm still holding out for the one groove personally.

 

[J E Custom]

We did a few of these at Nesika and didn't have much luck with them. The head sales guy (Richard) fussed with one for awhile on a BR rig, but I don't think he ever really got much out of it. I hear that certain bullets love em and others. . .well. . .not so much.

I'm still holding out for the one groove personally.

Or maby a smooth bore?

Thanks rocky but I think I have my hands full with 4500 ft/sec.

And I hope I can make it shoot sub 1/2 MOA groups .

The solids are my last hope if I can't make the Blistic tips work.

Keep the input comming I need all the help I can get on this one.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Recoil Rob]

I know a long dead thread but while researching my "situation" I came across this and figured I'd ask here.

Had a 30.06 rebored to .35 Whelen, 3 groove, factory Rem ammo is fine but factory Federal caused serious pressure problems. It was suggested to me it might be a tight bore so I slugged it.

Also, Rem bullets measured .356, Federals, .358.

Lands and grooves are equal width, the reborer stated .349 bore and .359 groove diameter, meaning .005 groove depth.

When slugging the bore the measurement I got across from one groove to the opposite land is .349. Add .005 for the missing groove depth and I come up with a groove diameter of .35.

Am I correct or have I missed something?

Here's a sketch I made.

 

[Alaska2006]

I have only one 3 groove its a Krieger and shoots very well. Full custom 300wm I have noticed a couple differences as I have twin 300wm one with Krieger 3 groove and one with Brux 5R. both shoot great but the Krieger is 60-100 fps slower with the same load. The Krieger also builds more pressure than the 5R same loads.

that said they both shoot very good.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

I have only one 3 groove its a Krieger and shoots very well. Full custom 300wm I have noticed a couple differences as I have twin 300wm one with Krieger 3 groove and one with Brux 5R. both shoot great but the Krieger is 60-100 fps slower with the same load. The Krieger also builds more pressure than the 5R same loads.

that said they both shoot very good.

That is an aspect I have not measured. Only 2 of the four 3 groove are installed. I do not have before or same chambering barrel to compare against. Time to break out the Pressure Trace II. I don't think my Pac-Nor barrels are producing pressures not in line with velocity. I'll have to check...