284 win build w 195 berger

[ohiohunter]

I'm getting 2415 fps from my 7-08's with the 195, and 2850 from my 7WSM's. Shot a WT buck through both shoulders at about 100 meters with one this year, and found the bullet under the offside hide, weighing 62gr.

And IME, like ohiohunter, neck turning is often necessary when necking up and Lapua brass is generally harder and more durable than Norma.

How do you like that little 08 pushing those 195's?? I have one and thought the 180's were too much weight so ended up w/ 145gr lrx and 150gr barnes. That rifle has 2 elk under its belt. What is your load like on that 708, I may tinker a little as the lighter bullets limit down range energy. I'd like to see some velocities of the 7-08 w/ 180s so I can calculate energy.

That buck was shot w/ 7wsm 195gr at 100m and no exit and only retained 62gr??? So basically just the copper jacket. I can't say I like that on an animal that size.

I've been told by very reliable people the 195's are a wash w/ the 180's until you get into the bigger magnums.

 

[Jordan Smith]

The -08's do well with the 195's, but for the purposes of those rifles, I'm sticking with the 162AM. I'm using 46gr of IMR7828ssc (slow lot).

Yup, shot with a 7WSM and 195's. It performed pretty well exactly how the Berger hunting bullets are designed to perform. It's a lot of lead for a little WT to eat, and he didn't go far.

I can't speak to the 180's specifically, but the 195's sure make the 162AM look silly in the wind, in any cartridge I've shot them in. The numbers suggest that the 195 will drift less than the 180, regardless of cartridge.

 

[srhaggerty]

No neck turning? I don't trust my mandrel will stretch my brass leaving me w/ uniform necks. The weakest point in that neck w/ give, not all at once.

I find the lapua/norma firings very odd. B/c I have some norma that I've gotten one firing from. Norma is notoriously soft, lapua is sought after and everything else is used when lapua can't be found (well for the most part).

Nope no neck turning. I had a lengthy conversation with Ryan Pierce about this very topic. He was the one who told me just to run them through my FL sizing die

I still did the K&M mandrel and then FL sized em. They have been great so far.

 

[scottyd2506]

what reamer did you all use or have use. I hear that the chamber is different for standard 284 win vs 284 Norma (that uses 6.5-284 necked up to 7mm). the base is slightly bigger on the norma vs win?

any suggestion on a reamer and re-size die that work good together?

Barrel makers are not getting on board, I see billions of 1:8.5 and even more 9 twist 7mm barrels, and very very little 1:8.0 twists w little options.

 

[TOM H]

what reamer did you all use or have use. I hear that the chamber is different for standard 284 win vs 284 Norma (that uses 6.5-284 necked up to 7mm). the base is slightly bigger on the norma vs win?

any suggestion on a reamer and re-size die that work good together?

Barrel makers are not getting on board, I see billions of 1:8.5 and even more 9 twist 7mm barrels, and very very little 1:8.0 twists w little options.

I hate to push another site but you may want to try accurateshooter forum as those guys are shooting 284 and here something on post about that.


I can't speak to anyone else, but there is one person shooting the Berger 195s from straight .284 and a 1:9" twist barrel at my home range with very good results. My range sits at 2,835 ft. elevation, so that may be a factor. When the temps get cold (we are still seeing day time temps in the 40-50s) we'll see what happens. The other .284 shooters are mostly waiting to see what happens before they make the move with enthusiasm, but at least one or two have tried the 195 with their current rigs (1:9" twist barrels) with decent results.

I run the 195s from my 7 Dakota w/ 1:9" @ 3,000 fps with no problems or accuracy issues.

JeffVN

 

[scottyd2506]

I can't speak to anyone else, but there is one person shooting the Berger 195s from straight .284 and a 1:9" twist barrel at my home range with very good results. My range sits at 2,835 ft. elevation, so that may be a factor. When the temps get cold (we are still seeing day time temps in the 40-50s) we'll see what happens. The other .284 shooters are mostly waiting to see what happens before they make the move with enthusiasm, but at least one or two have tried the 195 with their current rigs (1:9" twist barrels) with decent results.

I run the 195s from my 7 Dakota w/ 1:9" @ 3,000 fps with no problems or accuracy issues.

JeffVN

Thanks for the input Tom. I wonder how stable those 195's are at distance? the Bullet stabilizer program at Berger's website claims w a 9 twist
Twist Rate Stability Calculator | Berger Bullets

the berger 195's 3000 fps 59 temp 2835 alt would bring down the G1 BC from 754 to 738bc
At my altitude of 500 ft and 2750 fps (w a 30 inch tube abd Re-17 I'm sure 2800 easy) w a temp of 40 deg and a 9 twist the bc goes down to 693, might as well go with a 180 hybrid w a 680 bc and another 200 fps.

I'm sure all of them would print good groups but the wind at 1000 is going to favor the 180 w a 9 twist because of the slight unstableness of the 195 w a 9 twist.. if the temp drops to 20 deg if I take it coyote hunting, the 9 twist could trow off the bc number even more, with a wind call at 900-1000 yards using the 754 bc as it drops down to 682 bc. if the temp drops the fps down to 2700 fps then 679 bc

This of course is all on a program, and real world results my vary. but the bc loss could cause a miss.
A 754bc @ 2700 fps has 59.8 in wind drift. where 680 bc is 68.3 inches. that's another 8 inches of error. Don't need an extra 8 inches of error when there is going to be plenty of wind error into the equation already
at your speed temp and altitude you all seem well off.

 

[scottyd2506]

I'm getting 2415 fps from my 7-08's with the 195, and 2850 from my 7WSM's. Shot a WT buck through both shoulders at about 100 meters with one this year, and found the bullet under the offside hide, weighing 62gr.

And IME, like ohiohunter, neck turning is often necessary when necking up and Lapua brass is generally harder and more durable than Norma.

2415 fps from an 08 case is impressive really, think about it, my friend has a rem 700 sps in 308 and gets 2500 fps w 175's from his 12 twist 20 inch bbl. the bc is 470 or so at that speed. if your bullet is stable at 2415 fps, the 708 w the 195 would be worlds better than a 308 w a 175 @ 2500 fps.
what length barrel you have? twist?

 

[Jordan Smith]

22", 9t

 

[AZShooter]

scottyd25-06,

I think a better comparison of the 7-08 and the 308 would have the 308 shooting the 215 hybrid. Several here have mentioned getting over 2500 with a 22-24" barrel. Canadian Bushman said:

"I'm currently running 48.0 grs of H4350 in lapua brass with a cci #200 primer for 2600-2610 fps
I run a C.O.A.L. of 3.150 in a L/A stiller.
This gun wears a 29.5" lilja 3 grv with a 1-10.5 twist.
This puts me at a .005" jam.
The bullet shot nearly the same from +.01 to -.01 with -.005 getting the edge.

This is not a single shot. I can load and feed from the box and I can eject a loaded round as well."

Crunch those numbers as your comparison.

All the high BC Bergers are a blast to shoot from cartridges usually deemed to small with velocities considered too slow.

I used RL-17 to shoot some 230 hybrids up to 2460 fps accurately from my 30BR/308 with a 22" barrel.

As mentioned earlier in this thrtead I shoot a 300 gr hybrid in my long throated 338 RCM at 2515 fps with 56.5 gr of RL-17.

I would love to give the 195 a try in a 284.

 

[Jordan Smith]

To be fair, you can't compare a .308 and 215 in a long action to a 7-08 and 195 in a short action, nor a 29.5" barrel with a 22". I'm betting 2500-2550fps would be easy with the 7-08/195 in a similar setup. Also, I didn't run the 7-08 up until I found pressure, I simply used the 2412 load as my starting load and went back to the 162's in my 7-08's.

 

[scottyd2506]

To be fair, you can't compare a .308 and 215 in a long action to a 7-08 and 195 in a short action, nor a 29.5" barrel with a 22". I'm betting 2500-2550fps would be easy with the 7-08/195 in a similar setup. Also, I didn't run the 7-08 up until I found pressure, I simply used the 2412 load as my starting load and went back to the 162's in my 7-08's.

wow didn't intend to start a 308 vs 7-08 debate. And I was certainly not putting down the 308, I actually don't a 708 or any 7mm's, I do own 30's, 3006, 300wm, 7.62x39 and a AR-10 in 308 w 24 in bull barrel I use sometimes for 1000 yard steel shooting.

the 230 hybrid has a .717 bc and is not a bad bullet, the 215 hybrid would seem to be the better choice, the 7-08 and 308 have similar case volumes, the bigger bore will always win for velocity in the same bullet weight, but not by much. the 195's in 7-08 should equal or surpass the 215's and outrun the 230 easy, plus have more BC (less drag) at a slight cost to barrel life. that's considering the 7mms are going to require 8 twist for optimum stability while the 308 may be ok with a 9 twist.

Another thought has been to use a 260 or better a 6.5x55 sweed shooting 160 matrix bullets with a 680 bc, a 338 RCM or a plain 338 win mag shooting 818 bc 300 grainers at 2500 fps.. then we get into more recoil.

I'm going w the 284 it's more like a short 280 rem or a 28-06 ,

 

[AZShooter]

I was just saying the 7mm, 30 and 338 high BC bullets are interesting with small cases. Also realize that any of these would do better in a long action or a long throated short action that is a single shot proposition.

Agree can't compare 22" to 30" barrels. But by mentioning it illustrates how it would increase velocity. A 30-32" 284 win long throated to fit a long action would be an interesting package for F class or some types of LR hunting. It would have low recoil, minimal barrel fouling, multiple shots capability with far less heat buildup and longer barrel life.

This is why I made that 338 RCM to shoot the 300s. It is a 14 lb rifle with 30" barrel. Recoil is 21 ft/lb.

I'd bet the 284 with 195s would have far less recoil somewhere in the 12 ft/lb range with same weight package.

The OP is going to have some fun soon.

 

[Jordan Smith]

Definitely. These high-BC bullets in short action cartridges are an amazing bang for buck.

 

[scottyd2506]

I was just saying the 7mm, 30 and 338 high BC bullets are interesting with small cases. Also realize that any of these would do better in a long action or a long throated short action that is a single shot proposition.

Agree can't compare 22" to 30" barrels. But by mentioning it illustrates how it would increase velocity. A 30-32" 284 win long throated to fit a long action would be an interesting package for F class or some types of LR hunting. It would have low recoil, minimal barrel fouling, multiple shots capability with far less heat buildup and longer barrel life.

This is why I made that 338 RCM to shoot the 300s. It is a 14 lb rifle with 30" barrel. Recoil is 21 ft/lb.

I'd bet the 284 with 195s would have far less recoil somewhere in the 12 ft/lb range with same weight package.

The OP is going to have some fun soon.

thanks AZ, I hope to put something together, the 284 reamer is what I'm debating on, the standard 284 win is ok, but the 284 normal using 6.5-284 brass Lapua has slightly different dimensions.
over all the 284 is pretty efficient, people are getting 2950-3000 fps from 180 bergers using Re-17 and 30 inch barrels, while the 7mm WSM gets 50 fps more, it burns WAY more powder, the 195's in the 284 would burn even less powder and have more barrel life. Your 338 RCM is something that should last forever. you get roughly 200 fps less than most 338 lapua magnums.. I bet it is a joy to shoot I bet a 338x 284 shehane would get 2400 fps from a 300 grain or close to it. or a 338 RSAUM would be another option.