280 ack imp 40 degrees vs Nosler brass

[TOM H]

Yeah it's a bad deal.

The answer is simple: if you have an older 280AI chamber, use 280 Remington caliber brass. If you have a new SAAMI chamber, use 280AI Nosler brass or 280 Remington caliber brass

Woods, I mention in past post about the 280AI that Sierra and Nosler had in their manual prior to the SAAMI spec 280AI and they also gave loading data along with case diagram. Sierra manual # 5 been around lot of years. I also told you case wasn't that far off what Nolser did for the 280AI SAAMI Spec.


.280 Ackley Improved | Gear | Guns & Ammo


If you go to picture click of case you get case that was in both reloading manual.

 

[pmh-usa]

I have Nosler Manual #4 and in that they have the original Ackley case dimensions. In Manual #6 they have case dimensions that differ by 7 thousandths. Also in #4 for the 30-06 AI they state "There is no industry standard maximum overalll cartridge length for this cartridge": however in #6 they quote, "Maximum SAAMI Overall Cartridge Length: 3.340". I go to the SAAMI and I see no mention of the 30-06AI. So is Nosler blowing smoke up our *** so they can pave the way screw up this round too? Interestly, in #4 for 180's their max load in RE22 is 62.0 (2985fps) for a load density of 97% - in Manual #6 for 180's, their max load in RE22 62.0 (2985fps) for a load density of 105%. All yo guys know that if you seat your bullet deep enough back in the case to change the load density this much that the ballistics are going to change. I would not trust the new manual for anything but toilet paper. Just shows how arrogant and irresponsible Nosler has become.

 

[TOM H]

I have Nosler Manual #4 and in that they have the original Ackley case dimensions. In Manual #6 they have case dimensions that differ by 7 thousandths. Also in #4 for the 30-06 AI they state "There is no industry standard maximum overalll cartridge length for this cartridge": however in #6 they quote, "Maximum SAAMI Overall Cartridge Length: 3.340". I go to the SAAMI and I see no mention of the 30-06AI. So is Nosler blowing smoke up our *** so they can pave the way screw up this round too? Interestly, in #4 for 180's their max load in RE22 is 62.0 (2985fps) for a load density of 97% - in Manual #6 for 180's, their max load in RE22 62.0 (2985fps) for a load density of 105%. All yo guys know that if you seat your bullet deep enough back in the case to change the load density this much that the ballistics are going to change. I would not trust the new manual for anything but toilet paper. Just shows how arrogant and irresponsible Nosler has become.

If you look at Sierra manual they have same 280AI case and I don't have my Nosler manuals in front of me so can't say what year or manual Nosler was changed to SAAMI spec for the 280AI.

As to the OCL for the 30-06AI they keep the same as for the 30-06 which some like to do instead of special throating.

I guess you haven't read Sierra manual loading data for the 30-06AI as they also have max load of 62gr/R-22 with their 180gr bullets even the long 180gr HPBT MatchKing. I guess you haven't read Speer manual that has max load for the 30-06 with 62gr/R-22 with 180gr bullet as a compressed load also Alliant powder reloading data for the 30-06 has max load for 180gr with 62gr/R-22.

Which manual you using for your 30-06AI?

 

[rharfo]

Got a reply from both Dakota Arms and Red Hawk Rifles. Both report using Nosler brass with good success in their 40 degree cut chambers.....

 

[eddybo]

 

[woods]

Exactly - .014"

That was what caused my flattened primers

 

[Buttermilk]

http://www.saami.org/pubresources/cc_drawings/Rifle/280 Ackley Improved.pdf

Straight from SAAMI's website.

Based on the SAAMI website cartridge drawing, the spec's of the one above are off a bit, but close.

I've used Nosler 280AI brass in a chamber cut for the "so called" older original wildcat 280AI with no issues. This was done in two different chambers.

 

[eddybo]

http://www.saami.org/pubresources/cc_drawings/Rifle/280 Ackley Improved.pdf

Straight from SAAMI's website.

Based on the SAAMI website cartridge drawing, the spec's of the one above are off a bit, but close.

I've used Nosler 280AI brass in a chamber cut for the "so called" older original wildcat 280AI with no issues. This was done in two different chambers.

As have I, in probably a half dozen or more with never a problem. BUT, until recently unfired nosler .280AI brass when checked with a comparator measured exactly the same fireformed .280 nosler cases when fired in an older chamber. The most recent lot of brass I picked up is .006 short. Probably not a huge deal to most, but I like to control the headspace on my brass. The only way I am going to use the new brass in a non saami chamber is to neck it up and form a shoulder when I neck it back down. If you turn a mandrel that only necks the brass up .005 or so it is not going to work the brass overmuch.

 

[pmh-usa]

Tom the point I was making that all Nosler did from Manual 4 to Manual 6 was change the depth of the bullet seating - no way in hell the ballistics would remain the same when you go from 97% load density to a compressed load at %105 but magically all remained the same. So much for care and concern in publishing reloading data.

 

[Buttermilk]

The load density changed when Nosler started using Nosler brass. The brass thickness is what changed the load density. While it may have been an OAL length value, I suspect wall thickness of the brass.

My own Nosler 280ai brass weighs different than my fireformed 280R brass.

 

[varmintH8R]

Thanks Nosler for confusing some of us, its always good to be confused when loading ammunition!

Great post, so true. That should be the title of this thread. Before I was sure there was a 14 thou difference. Now I'm unsure. It could be the same. Or 6 thou. Or maybe 14 after all. Maybe it depends on the chamber. Or the dies.

When reloading I always err on the side of caution - looks like more fireforming in my future!

 

[swpc629]

I talked with a local gunsmith about the shoulder being .014 shorter and he took a shell holder and cut .014 off the top of it so I would be able to use my Redding dies for either version of the 280 Ackley and not have to buy a new set of dies for my Kimber.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Hey Van, don't forget to hit me up if get anymore Fed STW, 7Mag, or .257 Wby brass...

 

[dporter99]

Dumb question: if we shoot a SAAMI nosler factory round or reloaded new brass through an original AI chamber, won't it fireform to the original (0.014 longer) chamber and be fine for remaining reloads?