264 win mag vs. 7mm rem mag

[Broz]

If you remember, and and can comprehend, I was comparing a 7mm rem mag to a 300 win mag. You twist it around and start wanting to compare it to the 30-378.
.

Not true at all. I only mentioned the 30-378 when you wanted to support your statement with your larger cased 7.

I agree your original post was comparing the 7mm Rem to a 300 win. That is exactly what I have been saying all along.

Now you insinuate you may want to limit the available size of bullet for the 300 win. So yes, if you limit the 300 to the largest bullet (weight) available for the 7mm then that is a different deal. But if you use the largest bullets readily available for both I disagree that a 7mm REM will out pound a 300 win.

You don't like me because I challenge you on statements you make I do not agree with. Others feel the same and challenge you too. So in a sense the things you say about me are equally true about yourself.

We will see where it goes in the end. If I am wrong I will apologize, I have done it before. But when I feel I am right I will defend what I believe.

Think what you want of me. Post bad things, call names side in with the 2 or 3 of you as a group. Now who is standing his ground, and who is acting like the school boy they accused others of in earlier posts. For every one of you that choose to not like what I post, there are at least 10 to 20 that I have made personal friends with on this site. I wish you the same.

Jeff

 

[MN Hunter]

IEH
Are all 174 post of yours similar to what I have read in this thread?
All I can say is OMAA

 

[Korhil78]

Delete.

It just wasn't worth it.

 

[idaho elk hunter]

Not true at all. I only mentioned the 30-378 when you wanted to support your statement with your larger cased 7.

I agree your original post was comparing the 7mm Rem to a 300 win. That is exactly what I have been saying all along.

Now you insinuate you may want to limit the available size of bullet for the 300 win. So yes, if you limit the 300 to the largest bullet (weight) available for the 7mm then that is a different deal. But if you use the largest bullets readily available for both I disagree that a 7mm REM will out pound a 300 win.

You don't like me because I challenge you on statements you make I do not agree with. Others feel the same and challenge you too. So in a sense the things you say about me are equally true about yourself.

We will see where it goes in the end. If I am wrong I will apologize, I have done it before. But when I feel I am right I will defend what I believe.

Think what you want of me. Post bad things, call names side in with the 2 or 3 of you as a group. Now who is standing his ground, and who is acting like the school boy they accused others of in earlier posts. For every one of you that choose to not like what I post, there are at least 10 to 20 that I have made personal friends with on this site. I wish you the same.

Jeff

Jeff.. you just do not get it.. That's fine..But your opinion is the only one that's counts and you will argue it to the end. There is only on bullet, one caliber, one way to do things, and god forbid, someone else has a better proven way than Jeffs..my 71 yrs of experience and not to mention the family that I married into 46 yrs ago. You do not even know who I am or the capabilities that I have. I bet you petition the website to erase this thread, or ban me. I do not care.. YOUR WRONGE IN YOUR ADDITUDE!. I am off this site forever..Same stuff, ask questions different ways,, same answers in a different way, nothing new. sucks..

 

[Broz]

Jeff.. you just do not get it.. That's fine..But your opinion is the only one that's counts and you will argue it to the end. There is only on bullet, one caliber, one way to do things, and god forbid, someone else has a better proven way than Jeffs..my 71 yrs of experience and not to mention the family that I married into 46 yrs ago. You do not even know who I am or the capabilities that I have. I bet you petition the website to erase this thread, or ban me. I do not care.. YOUR WRONGE IN YOUR ADDITUDE!. I am off this site forever..Same stuff, ask questions different ways,, same answers in a different way, nothing new. sucks..

That is simply not true. If you believe that then you know very little about me too. I shoot many calibers. Sure I have my 3 favorites, and sure I have my preferences. Just like you. But that does not mean either of us should post wrong statements, that can be proven with math, and not get challenged on it. Does it?

And yes I know you married into the Weatherby family, that explains your love for Weatherby's. Congratulations on your 46 yrs. But does that make you always right or mean you are above me and I should let you post things without asking for proof?

Why don't you just enjoy this site and try to get along instead of stating things to stir the pot that are provable wrong and only your preferences. Maybe we could have some good conversations. I will listen to you, I am sure you have things I would like to hear.

Who's attitude is wrong?? You have tossed out insinuations slamming Kirby, Shawn and set out to drag me through the mud. WHY?? You have some members not liking your attitude and they are calling you on it. More each day. Now you just said, in so many words, this site "sucks" ?? But I have an attitude problem??

Stay or go I care less. But there are some great people on here if you give them a chance. Shawn and Kirby build great rifle and there are 100's on here to back that up. You are not the only one in the know.

Good day
Jeff

 

[rooster740]

Hot spit fellas, it is hotter then rancher blood at wolf meeting in here! I read back through this mess and it appears that some posts have been deleted, ah bummer! I kind of get a kick out of someone else's ****ing match!
Anyhow I have 2, 264wm that have not been fired in over 5 years and a 7mm RM that i have not used in a while. They have all done a lot of killing in the past, all are Winchester m70 and not really set up with optics to shoot further then 5-600 yards. My new toy is a 26-06.
Both are fine calibers, but my go to guns are 243, 26-06, and 300wm.
Happy hunting!

Ps if anybody wants to get in a shoot out with Broz, ya better be further then 2700 yards, I do know this.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

In what other ways can I support it? I gave the load,, everything.. Many of us on here are getting tired of you and your attitude. Go shoot what ever you want at the paper targets. Just do not aim at me.. I wont take it.
AGAIN if you want to support the fact of the superiority of the .308 to the 284 the take a average of all the boattail bullets in 140 gr to 180gr and compare! You can even go to the higher grains in the .308 if you wish.
If you remember, and and can comprehend, I was comparing a 7mm rem mag to a 300 win mag. You twist it around and start wanting to compare it to the 30-378.
If others want to see the demeanor of this stubborn (back at ya) feller check out the thread on Ted Nugget.. Many others are tired of him. I bet he believes a schoolbus is more aerodynamic than a Ferrari.

I don't remember you ever giving a load. All I remember is you rolling off some incredible velocities for a 7 RM in some special treated souped up barrel.

What exactly is your load? Powder, bullet, brass, primer... And what exactly is your rifle, barrel length and twist. And then let's run the numbers in a ballisitic calc and see what they say.

 

[idaho elk hunter]

I have nothing to prove to you or BROZ. You think you know everything and doubt every thing other have done if its not what you have experienced. So take the program and plug in ADI 2225, win mag primer. Bullet seated out to a custom oal with a 460 Weatherby action being able to handle it. Free bore it and moly coat the bullet. The bolt is custom built to handle the size of head. Now go call Brian Litz or you can look it up on the internet why the 7mm cal is superior to the 308 cal. NOT ROCKET SCIENCE. but I guess some are ostriches with there head in the sand. Its been called a hot rod... really is that what Boat Tails were called when they came out? John Lazzeroni closed a thread on this sight due to ignorant people that do not know SH!T. We work in this industry when you armchair know it all people were still in diapers.. THE INTERNET HAS MADE YOU PEOPLE EXPERTS OVERNIGHT.. Buy the way the response you gave on form factor a while back proves your ignorance.. you don't know what your talking about! that is fact how can you have a faulty program tell you about ballistics when you can not even figure out case capacity of the cartridge and load I am even talking about? it differs with the COAL and boattail being used DUH! Like I said in the past I am tired of hearing how good you are. I am tired of what caliber is good, I am tired of the same old ignorance you display.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I have nothing to prove to you or BROZ. You think you know everything and doubt every thing other have done if its not what you have experienced. So take the program and plug in ADI 2225, win mag primer. Bullet seated out to a custom oal with a 460 Weatherby action being able to handle it. Free bore it and moly coat the bullet. The bolt is custom built to handle the size of head. Now go call Brian Litz or you can look it up on the internet why the 7mm cal is superior to the 308 cal. NOT ROCKET SCIENCE. but I guess some are ostriches with there head in the sand. Its been called a hot rod... really is that what Boat Tails were called when they came out? John Lazzeroni closed a thread on this sight due to ignorant people that do not know SH!T. We work in this industry when you armchair know it all people were still in diapers.. THE INTERNET HAS MADE YOU PEOPLE EXPERTS OVERNIGHT.. Buy the way the response you gave on form factor a while back proves your ignorance.. you don't know what your talking about! that is fact how can you have a faulty program tell you about ballistics when you can not even figure out case capacity of the cartridge and load I am even talking about? it differs with the COAL and boattail being used DUH! Like I said in the past I am tired of hearing how good you are. I am tired of what caliber is good, I am tired of the same old ignorance you display.

I ask for load and barrel spec and this is what I get? Interesting indeed... It tells me you don't have a load and you are just blowing hot air. What's so hard about providing load info? Broz does have 300 WM load data and also well documented field results. You have a lot of hot air.

Also, please cite specifically anything I have said in this forum that is technically incorrect. I have no idea what you are babbling about.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

I have nothing to prove to you or BROZ. You think you know everything and doubt every thing other have done if its not what you have experienced. So take the program and plug in ADI 2225, win mag primer. Bullet seated out to a custom oal with a 460 Weatherby action being able to handle it. Free bore it and moly coat the bullet. The bolt is custom built to handle the size of head. Now go call Brian Litz or you can look it up on the internet why the 7mm cal is superior to the 308 cal. NOT ROCKET SCIENCE. but I guess some are ostriches with there head in the sand. Its been called a hot rod... really is that what Boat Tails were called when they came out? John Lazzeroni closed a thread on this sight due to ignorant people that do not know SH!T. We work in this industry when you armchair know it all people were still in diapers.. THE INTERNET HAS MADE YOU PEOPLE EXPERTS OVERNIGHT.. Buy the way the response you gave on form factor a while back proves your ignorance.. you don't know what your talking about! that is fact how can you have a faulty program tell you about ballistics when you can not even figure out case capacity of the cartridge and load I am even talking about? it differs with the COAL and boattail being used DUH! Like I said in the past I am tired of hearing how good you are. I am tired of what caliber is good, I am tired of the same old ignorance you display.

Man you must have gotten ahold of some really good ganja lately man. I'm not in either guys fanclub you are insulting here but they do know their stuff.

As to Lazz., he's a blowhard and has probably lost more business with his antics than he'll gain here by being a sponsor. As to Brain Litz- I really don't care why he blows sunshine up one and not the other; I suspect he likes tighter twist (with standard rates) calibers because he can get a more aggressive profile on the longer bullets and they'll still spin well.

It's really a no- brainer to anyone who doesn't have a cranial-rectal inversion that both 30cal and 7mm can be made to perform well, with the edge going to 30 cal because of weight carrying capabilities; though the average 7mm twist is a bit faster allowing for slightly higher sd bullets to be used- give them both either 9 or 10" twist to be fair and 30 kills 7mm in the heaviest/most aggressive pills that will spin. Given equal sd's and equal launch speeds 30 cal will out pound a 7mm every day (given similar bullet profiles) and twice on Sunday. Playing games with cartridges and barrels to favor one is just that-- playing games. I really don't care which is better to be honest as I shoot both and kill well with both; end of story in my book.

 

[LONGSHOOTER]

Back before Brian Litz was making the heavy 30s, he was expounding the virtues of the 7, saying the 30 could never match the uniqueness of the 7. I said make heavy 30 bullets similar to the 7s, and they would surpass the 7s in ability. He did, and they did.

So, people in love with the 7, push the 7s, for no rhyme nor reason. They even go so far as to say; "If you can't get what you want with the 7, the 338 is the next step". What a bunch of rubbish.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

As to Lazz., he's a blowhard and has probably lost more business with his antics than he'll gain here by being a sponsor. As to Brain Litz- I really don't care why he blows sunshine up one and not the other; I suspect he likes tighter twist (with standard rates) calibers because he can get a more aggressive profile on the longer bullets and they'll still spin well.

Brian Litz' article often gets cited in the 7 vs 30 debate and it is never cited in context. First, he was writing to a BR audience and not a long range hunting audience. One factor he mentioned was recoil and again to a BR audience shooting numerous strings, not to long range hunters with braked rifles. Also, at the time of the article there was less selection of heavier high BC bullets like the hybrids in 30 cal.

I can pretty much guarantee that if Brian entered in this he would completely refute the idea that a " 7RM can out pound an 300 WM" in the long range hunting context.

It's really a no- brainer to anyone who doesn't have a cranial-rectal inversion that both 30cal and 7mm can be made to perform well, with the edge going to 30 cal because of weight carrying capabilities; though the average 7mm twist is a bit faster allowing for slightly higher sd bullets to be used- give them both either 9 or 10" twist to be fair and 30 kills 7mm in the heaviest/most aggressive pills that will spin. Given equal sd's and equal launch speeds 30 cal will out pound a 7mm every day (given similar bullet profiles) and twice on Sunday. Playing games with cartridges and barrels to favor one is just that-- playing games. I really don't care which is better to be honest as I shoot both and kill well with both; end of story in my book.

This is correct. Traditionally the 7 rifles have been made in faster twists which facilitated the development of longer high BC bullet and in years past the 7 generally had a much better selection of high BC bullets but the cal itself has no ballistic advantage over the 30 cal, and in fact a 215 hybrid requiring a 10 twist fired from a 300 WM will ballisitically beat a 180 hybrid requiring a 9 twist fired from a 7 RM using the same length barrels.

Idaho elk hunter is well known for his unsubstantiated rants with no data to back it up. And when asked for data he rants and babbles more but never provides data to back up his ridiculous claims.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

BTW, I just cast my vote in this poll for the 7 RM for the exact same reason I would cast my vote for the 300 WM if the poll was between it and the 7.

The OP did not clarify the comparison so I made my vote based on the fact that this is a long range hunting forum and so voted for the 7 RM

there is no question that the 7 RM can out pound the 264 WM at long range hunting just like there is no question that the 300 WM can out pound the 7 RM.

 

[idaho elk hunter]

Just finished a custom build for a customer this morning. I built it on a Remington Long action. I rarely use Remington's and have been known to actually refuse to use these actions. But the customer insisted and paid extra. I went out and shot the full load developments this morning and this is what I came up with. Long Remington action ( original a 8mm Rem) Custom Wyatt extended box mag. Bartlien 28 in Barrel progressive twist or t style rifling. Final twist rate 1 in 8.65. Left hand twist. 5R RIFLING. 175gr LR Accubond. 180 Berger would also work. Win Mag primer. Bullet seated way out! I am not going to give all info, this is what I get paid for. I use Retumbo exclusively for the heavy 7mm bullets. Lets say somewhat over 76 gr of powder. Bullet moly coated. Brake is of my own manufacture. etc. 3275 fps! This OUT POUNDS all 300 win mags that you or Broz claim to do. The form factor on the 7mm just out does the 30 cal. But I don't expect you to understand form factor. Some just argue. I like all calibers. but at the end of the day the 7mm and the 338 are superior calibers for North American game when it comes to long range. Go crawl in you cave and know that the real people that are not internet warriors are laughing at you. ( Brian Litz, John Lazzeroni, Myself and the rest of the educated world)