260 Rem Vs. 6.5-06

[Trickymissfit]

That's my dilemma as we speak. I'm thinking of the .260,6.5-06, or 6.5x284. Mainly for targets but possibly on deer. I'm looking at the tikka t3, savage varmint hunter, or savage long range hunter. I own a tikka in 22-250 and its a tack driver. I do not own a savage yet, but hear they are as well. The varmint hunter has a heavier barrel that is fluted vs the long range hunter has a slimmer barrel but has a muzzle brake. Thanx for any opinions. Sorry for stealing this thread, but it is closely related.

might want to add the good old 6.5x55 into the mix as well, and the 6.5x47 Lapua. Folks have been shooting the 6.5x47 out to 1000 yards for years, and probably would make afine deer cartridge out to 400 yards.
gary

 

[WildRose]

That's my dilemma as we speak. I'm thinking of the .260,6.5-06, or 6.5x284. Mainly for targets but possibly on deer. I'm looking at the tikka t3, savage varmint hunter, or savage long range hunter. I own a tikka in 22-250 and its a tack driver. I do not own a savage yet, but hear they are as well. The varmint hunter has a heavier barrel that is fluted vs the long range hunter has a slimmer barrel but has a muzzle brake. Thanx for any opinions. Sorry for stealing this thread, but it is closely related.

The differences in performance between the three are negligible. Also barrel life is not a problem really with any of them because they are low pressure loads. Personally I'd go for the .260 as out of the three it's the easiest on barrels and the most economical to shoot. If you are going with the savage I'd say go for the varmint hunter since you really don't need a brake with the .260 and if you do decide you want one for just a little more reduction on barrel flip with that diameter barrel something like the Shrewd Varmint Brake will go on easy and look great.

 

[WildRose]

might want to add the good old 6.5x55 into the mix as well, and the 6.5x47 Lapua. Folks have been shooting the 6.5x47 out to 1000 yards for years, and probably would make afine deer cartridge out to 400 yards.
gary

I definitely agree on the 6.5x55. Great cartridge. The 6.5x47 though gives up a good deal of velocity to the rest so I consider it an inferior hunting cartridge compared to the others.

 

[crittrgittr]

So in the savage you would take the 260 over the 6.5x284? Mainly because of barrel life?

 

[Trickymissfit]

The differences in performance between the three are negligible. Also barrel life is not a problem really with any of them because they are low pressure loads. Personally I'd go for the .260 as out of the three it's the easiest on barrels and the most economical to shoot. If you are going with the savage I'd say go for the varmint hunter since you really don't need a brake with the .260 and if you do decide you want one for just a little more reduction on barrel flip with that diameter barrel something like the Shrewd Varmint Brake will go on easy and look great.

the .260 Remington is regarded as a high pressure round like all .308 based cases are. The SAMMI spec is 60K psi. There is no real pressure spec for the 6.5-06 as it's still considered to be a wildcat. But the closest thing to it is the 25-06 at 63K psi. The barrel is always better with the 30-06 based case due to the much longer neck length, but would be even better with a steeper shoulder angle. Their shoulder angles are 2.5 degrees apart, and that's not a lot of difference. On the otherhand the 6.5x57 (.257 necked up or the standard Mauser case) will push a 140 grain bullet just as fast as the others with a better barrel life. Hogdon got 2730 fps with a 140 grain bullet using 50 grains of H4831 in an 18" barrel!! In a 24" barrel that should give you about 3000fps without too much trouble. Of course you could do the samething with a .257AI necked upto 6.5, and probably see an honest 3100 fps using the 140 grain bullet again. For dies you could use a Redding .257AI bushing die and use the Forster seater by simply running a reamer thru the sleeve to make the case fit. (use a .298 reamer and shave the necks about .0045"). With this round you'd have everything and could be done on the cheap side.
gary

 

[elkaholic]

the .260 Remington is regarded as a high pressure round like all .308 based cases are. The SAMMI spec is 60K psi. There is no real pressure spec for the 6.5-06 as it's still considered to be a wildcat. But the closest thing to it is the 25-06 at 63K psi. The barrel is always better with the 30-06 based case due to the much longer neck length, but would be even better with a steeper shoulder angle. Their shoulder angles are 2.5 degrees apart, and that's not a lot of difference. On the otherhand the 6.5x57 (.257 necked up or the standard Mauser case) will push a 140 grain bullet just as fast as the others with a better barrel life. Hogdon got 2730 fps with a 140 grain bullet using 50 grains of H4831 in an 18" barrel!! In a 24" barrel that should give you about 3000fps without too much trouble. Of course you could do the samething with a .257AI necked upto 6.5, and probably see an honest 3100 fps using the 140 grain bullet again. For dies you could use a Redding .257AI bushing die and use the Forster seater by simply running a reamer thru the sleeve to make the case fit. (use a .298 reamer and shave the necks about .0045"). With this round you'd have everything and could be done on the cheap side.
gary

Gary.....what barrel length are you quoting to get 3100' with a 6.5/.257A.I.? That sounds awfully high!......Rich

 

[Trickymissfit]

Gary.....what barrel length are you quoting to get 3100' with a 6.5/.257A.I.? That sounds awfully high!......Rich

it'd have to be 26" in length. There is some improved data out there for a 6.5x57, but it's also a little different than the Ackleyized 57mm Mauser case length. Here's some thought on this, so bear with me.

The AA manual is the only manual that consistently publishes pressure specs, so I started with them, and then moved on. The 120 grain bullet in a .257AI will do 2900 fps in a 24" barrel using 45.3 grains of 4350. But the round they used had the 28 degree shoulder instead of a 40. They Ackley will hold a slight bit more powder, and we see this in the AA manual. They got 3050fps with AA4350 (49.5 grains). Now with a 6.5 bullet weighing the same there will be slightly more square inches of area to help push the bullet thru the barrel. You won't pick up a lot but maybe 50 to 75fps. So I think we can already see 3100 fps out of the improved case. Now in the newer Hornaday book they used a 23.62" barrel with a standard Mauser 57mm case. They got 2700fps using 43.8 grains of IMR 4350. We kinda know we're gonna pick up about 100fps with a 26" barrel right away, but that's also a 46K psi load at the most. The improved round and case are aso known to be capable of handeling 63K psi as we already know from the .257AI (remember the 6.5 and the .257 are very close cousins). So lets say we stop at 58Kpsi in a bolt action Remington rifle. That almost a 25% increase in pressure pushing the bullet. Ackley did do the 6.5x57, but specs are extremely hard to come by. He also did the 7x57, and it and the 6.5 are virtually the same except for bore diameter. He published a couple 3100+ fps loads using the 140 grain bullet with an specified barrel length (probably a 24" barrel as that's what he used most of the time). Now the powders he used are older lots of course, and he never had powders like 2495, or 2700. A 42 grain load under a 140 grain bullet will give 2700 fps in the standard 7x57 case (43.4K psi). That same bullet in the improved case with a 26" barrel ought to easilly exceed 3000 psi @ 53Kpsi. Your gonna pick up 100 fps with the longer barrel and then add almost a 25% increase in chamber pressure, but as I said the chamber pressure is usually loaded in the area of 60K psi. I'll agree that 3100 fps is about it, but then maybe it's not.
gary

 

[crittrgittr]

So for factory loads you are still saying go with the .260 over the 6.5x284? You guys are amazing with your knowledge about firearms. We are lucky to be able to talk to you experts on these forums. Thanx again.

 

[crittrgittr]

Sorry forgot to mention I already have .257 wthby and a .270 wsm

 

[WildRose]

So for factory loads you are still saying go with the .260 over the 6.5x284? You guys are amazing with your knowledge about firearms. We are lucky to be able to talk to you experts on these forums. Thanx again.

There's not a bad choice between the two but I'd stick with the .260.

I'll say this though the .264wm is a real pussycat when it comes to recoil compared to all of the other magnums I have ever fired. Even in my lightweight 700CDL without a brake on it I have no problem seeing my impacts from 200yds on out.

I spent a lifetime wanting a .264wm, if I'd known what I was missing and that they caliber would still be around today I'd have had one 30 years ago.

I think both the .260 rem and 6.5x284 have carved out secure nitches and will both be around 30 years from now, but with Remington behind the .260 I have more faith in it's staying power. My wife is extremely recoil sensitive and she flat loves shooting mine.

 

[crittrgittr]

I didn't mean factory loads above, I meant factory rifles. I'm still debating a good factory rifle/caliber for under $1000

 

[02Silver]

So in the savage you would take the 260 over the 6.5x284? Mainly because of barrel life?

Short Action in a hunting rifle is marginally lighter too. I'd take the 260 if I didn't want to reload since it is likely the easiest to find ammo for. Any of the mentioned loads have plenty of oomph for deer as they all out perform my 6.5 Grendel and it puts them down just fine up to 200 yards so far with 129 sst's.

 

[Trickymissfit]

So for factory loads you are still saying go with the .260 over the 6.5x284? You guys are amazing with your knowledge about firearms. We are lucky to be able to talk to you experts on these forums. Thanx again.

I kinda think the 6.5/.284 is about the max the 6.5mm bore can handle, and the 6.5-06 is slightly overbore (not by much). But think the 6.5-06AI will be into overbore, but not by a great amount. I also hold the Hornaday loading specs to be kinda suspect. In the Hogdon loading manual (#26) they publish data for the 6.5/.257 Roberts case. They show 2730 fps out of an 18" barrel with H4831 powder. Now with some of the better powders out here today and an 8" longer barrel, I think your knocking on 3000 fps. We already know the 6.5-06 will do this, and I am pretty certain you can get there with the 57mm improved case (going to be right at 60K psi). Dr. Arch got 2900 fps with a 140 grain bullet out of his improved 6.5x55 and a 26" barrel (54.0 grains of H450 powder). Perhaps somebody can chime in here with data for the 6.5x47 Lapua and the 140 grain bullet.
gary

 

[elkaholic]

I kinda think the 6.5/.284 is about the max the 6.5mm bore can handle, and the 6.5-06 is slightly overbore (not by much). But think the 6.5-06AI will be into overbore, but not by a great amount. I also hold the Hornaday loading specs to be kinda suspect. In the Hogdon loading manual (#26) they publish data for the 6.5/.257 Roberts case. They show 2730 fps out of an 18" barrel with H4831 powder. Now with some of the better powders out here today and an 8" longer barrel, I think your knocking on 3000 fps. We already know the 6.5-06 will do this, and I am pretty certain you can get there with the 57mm improved case (going to be right at 60K psi). Dr. Arch got 2900 fps with a 140 grain bullet out of his improved 6.5x55 and a 26" barrel (54.0 grains of H450 powder). Perhaps somebody can chime in here with data for the 6.5x47 Lapua and the 140 grain bullet.
gary

The Sherman will make 3200' with a 26" barrel and has approx. 11% more capacity than a std. 6.5-06 and 5% more than an A.I. That is why I questioned the 3100' with the improved Mauser case. The barrel on my Sherman has lasted over 1500 rounds and still shoots under 1/2 moa. I think the reason is the neck length and shoulder angle are better than the .284 case, which keeps the flame point contained better inside the neck rather than in the throat. I have heard of 6.5/.284's going south with less firings but have never owned one so can't say for sure.....Rich