220 Swift Using Faster Twist Barrel vs 22CM

[Greatgrandad]

Between a friend and I, we've run them all at one time or another. Currently, I still have a fast twist standard 22-250, 22-250 AI in 1/8" twist, and a friend is running the 22CM, a 220 Swift AI with a 1/8" twist and once had a 22-243. In all our loadings, the 22CM had no ballistic advantage over the 22-250 AI nor the 220 Swift AI and only little over my fast twist standard 22-250, and with some loads, the 22CM falls short, especially to the 220 AI. I will not go into the 22-243, for it is far superior to the 22CM but at a cost.

If one loves to play with wildcats, the 220 Swift AI in 1/8" twist is a viable small caliber LR cartridge, but depending on how used, throat life can be 1,000 rds .....or less. If one doesn't like wildcats, case forming, etc, then the 22CM is the easy button. Of course if one wants to really be a speed demon, the versions of the 22-243 and 22-6mm may be your cup of tea.

 

[Get_Saum]

I have a fast twist 22-250 that runs 90 grain A Tips just under 3350 with a 25" barrel. I'm not sure a 22CM will run with that.

A properly twisted and throated Swift would be faster I imagine, especially if you AI it.

That's scooting along with a 90 out of a 22-250. Non ackley correct? What powder?

 

[Nimrodmar10]

If you want a fast 224, build a 22 CHeetah. Jim Carmichel, shooting editor of Outdoor Life magazine and Fred Huntington of RCBS designed it back in the late 70s or early 80s. I had a 22-250 Remington 40X-BR rechambered to it shortly after reamers were available for it. It was formed by taking Remington 308 BR brass (308 Win. Brass with a small primer pocket and soft neck and shoulder to allow for forming) It was necked down to .224, in stages, then the shoulders blown out to 40 degrees. I was pushing 55 gr. bullets at over 4,300 fps without showing signs of pressure. It sent a LOT of groundhogs to the promised land.
Carmichael also designed a whole series Cheetah calibers on the same design: 24 Cheetah, 25 Cheetah, 26 Cheetah, etc. Lots of folks have tried things like 22-243, 22-308 and such, but they didn't use the 40 degree shoulder or small rifle primers, which was almost unheard of back then. We used slow twist barrels back then because we were looking for raw speed. But it would lend itself well to a fast twist and a heavy bullet with the powder capa ity of the 308 case blown out at the shoulder

 

[Greatgrandad]

If you want a fast 224, build a 22 CHeetah. Jim Carmichel, shooting editor of Outdoor Life magazine and Fred Huntington of RCBS designed it back in the late 70s or early 80s. I had a 22-250 Remington 40X-BR rechambered to it shortly after reamers were available for it. It was formed by taking Remington 308 BR brass (308 Win. Brass with a small primer pocket and soft neck and shoulder to allow for forming) It was necked down to .224, in stages, then the shoulders blown out to 40 degrees. I was pushing 55 gr. bullets at over 4,300 fps without showing signs of pressure. It sent a LOT of groundhogs to the promised land.
Carmichael also designed a whole series Cheetah calibers on the same design: 24 Cheetah, 25 Cheetah, 26 Cheetah, etc. Lots of folks have tried things like 22-243, 22-308 and such, but they didn't use the 40 degree shoulder or small rifle primers, which was almost unheard of back then. We used slow twist barrels back then because we were looking for raw speed. But it would lend itself well to a fast twist and a heavy bullet with the powder capa ity of the 308 case blown out at the shoulder

In the 22-243, we never really found much advantage of the 40 degree over our 30 degree shoulder, and while I like the idea of the SRP for added case life (especially now with primer costs and availability), we took the simpler and cheaper approach of necking the 243 case and fireforming while varmint shooting to obtain the 30 degree. Accuracy has always been excellent. However, the Cheetah was and remains an excellent cartridge.

 

[Mike Matteson]

Do you think that there is much difference in the velocity between the 12 & 14 twist?
Not arguing, just curious? I have a Swift in both, different barrel lengths though.
I think the 220 IMP would be a real performer, I just wish someone like Lapua would make a run of Swift cases.

My Seirra Manual 6th adition is showning 3700fps in a 55gr bullet. My older manual shows the same 55gr bullet at 3900fps. I chronographed the 55grs faster than that. I veloicty 4000fps. I had read somewhere at the time was to hold your velocity under 4000fps in the swift to cut down on the barrel burning. What I think happen is the quest for heaver bullet, they change the twist rate. I had earlier in my life tried 50, 52, and 55 grains bullets in my swift. The 55gr were almost a bug hold @ 100yds. I was loading IMR 4064 powder. Back then I didn't to anything special in reloading. Used RCB's Full length dies. Trimed as needed, and powder scale my reloads. That was about it. My brass wasn't check for weight nor volume weight either. So really I feel that my reload stile was or should be inconsistent at best at that time. Compared to what is being done at pressent times.
It seem everybody drive is using heavier bullets, and I can see why, but I am not much a fan of all those heavier bullets. I keep my range down to about 500yds. So I don't need heavier calibers.
I am working on some larger case and necking down to smaller calibers. Faster twist rates for all copper bullets to extend my range out to about 700yds. I love to shoot Varmints, There I can' work on my loads and skill to take things out that far. Beside that really tunes your shooting skills up. I will attach the info I had saved for the 220 swift. For whatever reason it wouldn't allow me to download the info. So I'll to type it down.
Sierra 55gr spt, Rem 9 1/2, IMR 4064 39gr, velocity 3900fps. Nosler 55gr BT CCI BR 2 RL 15, 37grs. The IMR was my go to powder. I tried Fed 210M primer and velocity was 4000 fps. Faster than I wanted.

 

[Mike Matteson]

If my ruger no1 220 swift would ever need it I would love to spin a 1-8 twist on it . The darned thing just shoots way to good now !

I didn't know that Ruger built a 1-8 twist rate in 220 Swift. They haven't built them in a long time if I remember correctly. My brother has one and now his 3rd barrel.

 

[Get_Saum]

32 years ago I got my first 220 Swift in a Ruger m77 heavy varmint tang safety. I have a lot of great memories with that old rifle and the 220 swift. My friend shot a 22-250. Over the years I've owned a couple of those but they never stuck around as I favored the swift. Several years back I decided I wanted an improved swift and built a 220 Weatherby rocket with a 9" twist. Should have done an 8" twist. 75gr bullets is where it topped out. I managed to get 3335 fps with the 75gr amax using H4831sc that shot extremely accurate. I suspect another powder like H4350 or something else would have given me a little more velocity. Maybe another 100 fps?? I've since been loading that rifle with the 53gr vmax running 4150 fps. I'll always have a Swift or improved version of it, but for now my fast twist 22 CF is the 22 Creedmoor. All jokes aside it's a great case for a fast twist 22 CF. I do think as has been said that the improved versions of the 220 swift and the 22-250 would be a neck and neck comparison to it. What's not to like about the 22 Creedmoor though? For visual comparison here's the 220 weatherby rocket next to the 22 Creedmoor with the 75gr a max. Both at -.030 off the lands with my particular chamberings.

 

[Jim’s Hunt]

Well I have a swift in a Sako varmint a cheap *** 22-250 in a Savage/Stevens and would build a 22 CM in is heartbeat because of the case efficiency for powder. A short fat case is always better than a tall skinny case

 

[Gary in MD]

My Seirra Manual 6th adition is showning 3700fps in a 55gr bullet. My older manual shows the same 55gr bullet at 3900fps. I chronographed the 55grs faster than that. I veloicty 4000fps. I had read somewhere at the time was to hold your velocity under 4000fps in the swift to cut down on the barrel burning. What I think happen is the quest for heaver bullet, they change the twist rate. I had earlier in my life tried 50, 52, and 55 grains bullets in my swift. The 55gr were almost a bug hold @ 100yds. I was loading IMR 4064 powder. Back then I didn't to anything special in reloading. Used RCB's Full length dies. Trimed as needed, and powder scale my reloads. That was about it. My brass wasn't check for weight nor volume weight either. So really I feel that my reload stile was or should be inconsistent at best at that time. Compared to what is being done at pressent times.
It seem everybody drive is using heavier bullets, and I can see why, but I am not much a fan of all those heavier bullets. I keep my range down to about 500yds. So I don't need heavier calibers.
I am working on some larger case and necking down to smaller calibers. Faster twist rates for all copper bullets to extend my range out to about 700yds. I love to shoot Varmints, There I can' work on my loads and skill to take things out that far. Beside that really tunes your shooting skills up. I will attach the info I had saved for the 220 swift. For whatever reason it wouldn't allow me to download the info. So I'll to type it down.
Sierra 55gr spt, Rem 9 1/2, IMR 4064 39gr, velocity 3900fps. Nosler 55gr BT CCI BR 2 RL 15, 37grs. The IMR was my go to powder. I tried Fed 210M primer and velocity was 4000 fps. Faster than I wanted.

Good info
IMR 4064 is what I've used mostly over the years in my Swifts with good accuracy. 38.5 grains has usually got me in the 3800s with a 55 gr Sierra or Ballistic tip. I've heard that the 4064 is hard on barrels so I've been trying VV160 jn one of mine and Staball6.5 in the other.
It was interesting that in a Ruger Swift that I used to have (the varmint/target with laminate stock) that with 38.5 grains of 4064 just got me to 3800 while a good friend's identical rifle and the same charge gave him a little over 3900, go figure.
Still wishing for some Swift Lappy brass....

 

[Greatgrandad]

If you want a fast 224, build a 22 CHeetah. Jim Carmichel, shooting editor of Outdoor Life magazine and Fred Huntington of RCBS designed it back in the late 70s or early 80s. I had a 22-250 Remington 40X-BR rechambered to it shortly after reamers were available for it. It was formed by taking Remington 308 BR brass (308 Win. Brass with a small primer pocket and soft neck and shoulder to allow for forming) It was necked down to .224, in stages, then the shoulders blown out to 40 degrees. I was pushing 55 gr. bullets at over 4,300 fps without showing signs of pressure. It sent a LOT of groundhogs to the promised land.
Carmichael also designed a whole series Cheetah calibers on the same design: 24 Cheetah, 25 Cheetah, 26 Cheetah, etc. Lots of folks have tried things like 22-243, 22-308 and such, but they didn't use the 40 degree shoulder or small rifle primers, which was almost unheard of back then. We used slow twist barrels back then because we were looking for raw speed. But it would lend itself well to a fast twist and a heavy bullet with the powder capa ity of the 308 case blown out at the shoulder

Just remembered a quote from Jim in one of his articles concerning the Cheetah. He was discussing the accuracy of the new cartridge, and he referenced how a golfing friend once asked him if he could hit a golf ball to 300 yards, Jim replied, "No, but I have a rifle that can hit a golf ball at 300 yards."

 

[Mike D Texas]

That's scooting along with a 90 out of a 22-250. Non ackley correct? What powder?

Sorry, it is a 22-250AI.

The magic fairy dust RL26.

 

[Get_Saum]

Sorry, it is a 22-250AI.

The magic fairy dust RL26.

I knew there was more to the story . I'm lucky enough to still have about 20 lbs of that stuff myself but only use it in a couple of my saums. I really had entertained the 22-250 Ai until the 22 Creedmoor changed my mind. That 250 really is a great cartridge. In fact if I remember correctly I believe guys were initially trying to make their 22 Creedmoor brass from it but said the neck ended up being a little short. There's been some discussion here about the 22-243, the Cheetah, 224 Clark. All are sure to put a grin on the face. I once had a smith talk me into a 22-6mm Rem that required necking down, neck turning, and fire forming to a 40* shoulder. At the time I couldn't find 6mm Remington brass so I started with 257 Roberts +p brass. Talk about a ton of work. I got fed up after loosing 50% of my brass while fire forming. I had cases splitting right in half with the front 1/2 still in the chamber. I personally think the headspace was too long even though the necked down cases had a false shoulder. The brass just couldn't stretch that far. Went back to the original plan for the 220 weatherby rocket. Here's a picture. Left to right; 6mm Rem, 22-6mm imp, 220 wby rkt, 243 win, 22 Creedmoor.

The 22 Creedmoor is just easy performance. If I were to want more the 22-243 might do. Or maybe a 22 saum.

 

[Dmagna]

I have a fast twist 22-250 that runs 90 grain A Tips just under 3350 with a 25" barrel. I'm not sure a 22CM will run with that.

A properly twisted and throated Swift would be faster I imagine, especially if you AI it.

The 22 creed will out perform a regular 22-250. It's about equal to a 22-250 ai. The problem is there is no brass for the 22-250, lapua isn't making any anytime soon.

I reached 3450 with the Berger 85.5 and 3400 with the atip in the creedmoor. But my rifle shoots the 85.5 way better and backed it down to 3350 in order to get some barrel life out of it.

 

[Dmagna]

It all comes down to the best components. Right now the 22 creed wins hands down. No one making brass for the 220 swift or the 22-250