22-250 to 600 yards max, does anyone do it?

[COBrad]

My rifle also has a 14 twist barrel. I've been shooting 52 gr Amax's at a little over 3800 fps, and 52 gr JLK Low Drag bullets at just over 3600. The rifle, a Cooper, shoots both bullets in the .4 MOA range. As has been mentioned, accuracy is great, but even a slight breeze out around 5 and 600 yards blow the bullets all over the place. My furthest shot has been a prairie dog at 683 yards.
I have the barrel about shot out, and will rebarrel with a 7 or 8 twist to shoot the 80-90 gr bullets. Most of my PD shooting is not so much high volume as it is long distance.

 

[gunners]

I used the Berger twist calculator for my Hornady 53 gr v- max it says unstable @.74 but it also says the 50 gr v- max would be unstable too @.84. Marginal stability starts at 1.0 with optimal being 1.4. Another more comprehensive calculator gives me 1.1 for my 53's. I figure if it shoots a- maxs alright it should be ok.
683 yards on a Pd is some pretty fine shooting. My barrel is probably just over a 1000 so not worth a rebarrel yet. I really want to get to the range and try them

 

[benchracer]

I used the Berger twist calculator for my Hornady 53 gr v- max it says unstable @.74 but it also says the 50 gr v- max would be unstable too @.84. Marginal stability starts at 1.0 with optimal being 1.4. Another more comprehensive calculator gives me 1.1 for my 53's. I figure if it shoots a- maxs alright it should be ok.
683 yards on a Pd is some pretty fine shooting. My barrel is probably just over a 1000 so not worth a rebarrel yet. I really want to get to the range and try them

Keep in mind that the Berger calculator is at its best with conventional jacketed hollow points. JBM Ballistics has a twist calculator that takes into account the plastic tips, which can have a big effect on the required theoretical twist. Their calculator can be found here:

JBM - Calculations - Stability

One other thing to consider is that there is a sizeable difference in length between the 52 grain AMAX and the 53 grain VMAX. The AMAX is very close in dimensions to the 50 grain VMAX. The 53 VMAX has a very aggressive nose, using the same profile as the nose on the 75 grain AMAX. It is longer, overall, than the 55 grain VMAX.

 

[COBrad]

I was down in eastern Utah today shooting PD's. I got 3 between 523 and 532 yards while the breeze was still light at 2-3 mph. Once it got up around 8-10, any hits at those ranges would involve too much luck so I switched to a different rifle.
This one was at 532 yds.

 

[gunners]

I'm thinking I'm going to need a bigger caliber like a 243/260 or similar. The wife won't like that at all. Might have to sell some guns to get some guns. I was toying with the idea of a DTA SRS and just have to swap barrels, but they are pretty heavy for normal hunting and expensive, but I do like the concept. Looks like I'm going to have to do some figuring out

 

[stomp442]

I run the 53 vmax out of a savage model 12 with a 12 twist. Im getting 3680fps with 37.0gr of IMR 4064. Shoots in the .2s - .3s at 100 yards and holds half moa or better on calm days out to 600.

 

[CB11WYO]

I run the 53 vmax out of a savage model 12 with a 12 twist. Im getting 3680fps with 37.0gr of IMR 4064. Shoots in the .2s - .3s at 100 yards and holds half moa or better on calm days out to 600.

Stomp,
What's your barrel length?

 

[stomp442]

26"

 

[DT400]

I just tried a load last weekend for my buddy's 22-250.
It's a factory savage model 16, 22" barrel, 1 in 12 twist, 53 gr Vmax and Hodgdon Benchmark.

I too wanted to try the 53 gr Vmax for the awesome BC. We're not getting near the velocities you are shooting for (our load validated @ 3350 fps). But is it good to 600 yards?? Heck yeah! On paper we had 1/2 MOA @ 200 yds and sub MOA @ 600 yds.

To further validate our velocity I took it out monday and demolished milk jugs @ 500 and 625 yds.

I have heard much the same as has already been said, about the 1 in 14 twist barrels not stabilizing. The 1 in 12 we're using works fine though.

Typically a powder/bullet manufacturer uses a 24" barrel for their tests, for 22-250 anyway.
I would say that at least in part the length of your barrel plays a part in your slow FPS.

Darrell

 

[CB11WYO]

26"

Thanks stomp. Just trying to build myself a base of data for the 53 grainers in a 22-250 as there doesn't seem to be hardly any info on them.

Typically a powder/bullet manufacturer uses a 24" barrel for their tests, for 22-250 anyway.
I would say that at least in part the length of your barrel plays a part in your slow FPS.

Darrell

Yup Darrell I was willing to give up 100-150 fps due to our 2" shorter barrell but I'm a good bit more than 100 fps short of the velocity I thought we'd achieve.

I've been referring to Hodgdon's data for 52 grain A-Max's in working the loads for the 53 gr. V-Max. I'm coming to the conclusion (thanks in part to Stomp's load data posted here a few posts ago...) that the design of the 53 gr. V-Max is a whole different animal in relation to bearing surface, etc... as compared to the 52 gr A-Max which I was trying to mimic. It will be interesting to see what/if Hornady publishes any data for the 53 grainer in a 22-250.

And I'm still not ruling out bore dimension issues...

 

[benchracer]

Thanks stomp. Just trying to build myself a base of data for the 53 grainers in a 22-250 as there doesn't seem to be hardly any info on them.



Yup Darrell I was willing to give up 100-150 fps due to our 2" shorter barrell but I'm a good bit more than 100 fps short of the velocity I thought we'd achieve.

I've been referring to Hodgdon's data for 52 grain A-Max's in working the loads for the 53 gr. V-Max. I'm coming to the conclusion (thanks in part to Stomp's load data posted here a few posts ago...) that the design of the 53 gr. V-Max is a whole different animal in relation to bearing surface, etc... as compared to the 52 gr A-Max which I was trying to mimic. It will be interesting to see what/if Hornady publishes any data for the 53 grainer in a 22-250.

And I'm still not ruling out bore dimension issues...

I finally got off the fence and bought a copy of Quickload. My 22-250 has a 26" 12 twist barrel. I intend to work up loads using CFE 223, IMR 8208XBR, and Varget with the 53 grain VMAX. Will report back with my results. Should be some time in May.

 

[RMulhern]

Well those are some really long bullets, what twist rate are you running. Also what scope I'm thinking I " need" a new one with target type turrets.
I still haven't got to the range yet, still recovering from an ACL injury to my knee

M700 SA with Krieger 1-7 ROT! Start at 35 gr. H4350 and work up! Using NF glass 5.5x22x56MM in MOA!

 

[Michael Courtney]

The 53g VMAX is longer than most 55g bullets and requires a 12 twist to stabilize reliably. While some shooters have reported good results from a 14 twist, others report that it will not stabilize in their 14 twist rifles.

Before you go too far, try the 53's in your rifle to see if they will stabilize. If not, try 52g AMAX or 50g VMAX. You could also try 55g Sierra Blitzkings, though they have a reputation for fragility that may make them better PD bullets than coyote bullets. I have personally had them come apart on paper @ 100 yards, splattering the target with fragments after hitting nothing but a cardboard backer. They have a good bc, though, and may work better at longer range. You might also consider the Berger 55g Match Flat Base Target bullets. They, too, have a decent bc.

The stability formula for plastic tipped bullets that Don Miller and I developed was experimentally tested in the 53 grain VMAX and shown to be very accurate for it. Depending on your atmospheric conditions (mostly altitude dependent) and muzzle velocity, you might be fine. But the spreadsheet at the link below should tell you directly without having to buy and test the bullets yourself.

New Formula for Gyroscopic Stability of Open Tipped Match Style Rifle Bullets

 

[benchracer]

The stability formula for plastic tipped bullets that Don Miller and I developed was experimentally tested in the 53 grain VMAX and shown to be very accurate for it. Depending on your atmospheric conditions (mostly altitude dependent) and muzzle velocity, you might be fine. But the spreadsheet at the link below should tell you directly without having to buy and test the bullets yourself.

New Formula for Gyroscopic Stability of Open Tipped Match Style Rifle Bullets

I read the paper you posted regarding bullet stability. Interesting stuff. Thank you for posting the stability formulas in spreadsheet form. This will be an excellent tool! GREAT information!

I had previously been using the stability calculator on the JBM site and I found it to work very well. I like having my own calculator, though. Now I can measure the bullets I have at home and create my own database.

I really think your spreadsheet should be made into a sticky for the Reloading forum. An accompanying sticky containing the relevant dimensions for various bullets would also answer a lot of questions for a lot of people.