elkaholic
Well-Known Member
I can only think of 2 things based on all the evidence. (1) something unique to your barrel (2) a particular batch of bullets?
180 Hornady ELD-M bullets blowing up in air
- Thread starter squeeeeze
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Ok I've spoke to Hornady and going to send the bullets back so they can Doppler test them and cross section to see if they can duplicate the issue or find the problem.
Hornady tech. Support said they've seen this a few times, one of times they saw this the bore was a bit too undersized and making them come apart.
Also talked to my smith again and going to take the gun back to him to look at barrel, twist, bore etc... and send back to proof if needed.
Hornady tech. Support said they've seen this a few times, one of times they saw this the bore was a bit too undersized and making them come apart.
Also talked to my smith again and going to take the gun back to him to look at barrel, twist, bore etc... and send back to proof if needed.
Just cut
Well-Known Member
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- Jan 23, 2017
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I only shoot 3 or 4 shots then let the barrel cool. I run them up faster when doing a ladder test but 87.5 grains of reloader 33 is giving me 3260 FPS and groups in the .2's
Jacob N Brown
New Member
Glad I was pointed to this forum. Im having this very problem right now. 7mm rem mag. 180gr eldm from a 28" 8.5 twist. From 2800-2950fps they group well. Higher and I start to see key holes and some miss the target entirely. I see evidence of jacket separation on the paper. The problem seemed to subside with a cooler barrel, but as it heated up, the problem was exaserbated.
Another individual over at the firing line believes this could be the result of a core separation due to high twist and non bonded bullets, and I think a hot barrel might make that worse by softening the lead core.
Also, my bullet seater die leaves a collar around the ogive where it contacts the die. I wonder if this is reducing the structural integrity of the already fragile projectile?
I'm eager to hear what you found from Hornady squeeeeze. I'm about to send the rest of these back, but **** they work well when they work...
Another individual over at the firing line believes this could be the result of a core separation due to high twist and non bonded bullets, and I think a hot barrel might make that worse by softening the lead core.
Also, my bullet seater die leaves a collar around the ogive where it contacts the die. I wonder if this is reducing the structural integrity of the already fragile projectile?
I'm eager to hear what you found from Hornady squeeeeze. I'm about to send the rest of these back, but **** they work well when they work...
I haven't heard back from Hornady yet but they've had them a few weeks.
Once I hear something from them I'll update this thread.
The faster I pushed mine the better they grouped. It seemed like they separated more at the lower speeds and the longer they stayed together in the air. My speeds started at about 3070 to 3186fps
Once I hear something from them I'll update this thread.
The faster I pushed mine the better they grouped. It seemed like they separated more at the lower speeds and the longer they stayed together in the air. My speeds started at about 3070 to 3186fps
It sounds to me like a rifle specific problem as plenty of other guys are shooting them at higher speeds with no problems. I would have a smith look down the bore with a scope. I wouldn't mind betting there is a rough patch somewhere there that is damaging the bullet. The high pressure at low loads points to there being a problem. Good luck sorting it out.
jgal72
Well-Known Member
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claybreaker
Well-Known Member
Have you considered slugging the barrel (maybe cold and hot)?
Interesting thought on the seater die marks near the bullet ogive, that's new thought (to me) that might need some consideration... especially on a tight nice neck that would need a little more pressure to seat.
+1 on the bore scope!
Interesting thought on the seater die marks near the bullet ogive, that's new thought (to me) that might need some consideration... especially on a tight nice neck that would need a little more pressure to seat.
+1 on the bore scope!
Jacob N Brown
New Member
I just talked to Tim at Hornady. He actually mentioned a guy with a 28 nosler trying to push them over 3200fps that was having problems (who could that be). Said they weren't really intended for that velocity, lol. If that's their position, they should probably say as much, but I know people are making them work even faster.
In any case, he also said a barrel with cut rifling in it's early stages can damage the bullet at high velocities due to the sharper edges of the rifling. He said in every case in their testing, over time the barrel was able to shoot them after the rifling became "bullet lapped". He mentioned hand lapping will likely fix this. Further, a hot barrel with these conditions will obviously tighten up and cause further damage during shooting.
I'm going to bore scope the thing to make sure there aren't any glaring defects. I don't really care to shoot my barrel half out to make these work, but I'll probably use up what I have left at the lower velocities that work, and see if it works higher in a couple hundred more rounds.
In any case, he also said a barrel with cut rifling in it's early stages can damage the bullet at high velocities due to the sharper edges of the rifling. He said in every case in their testing, over time the barrel was able to shoot them after the rifling became "bullet lapped". He mentioned hand lapping will likely fix this. Further, a hot barrel with these conditions will obviously tighten up and cause further damage during shooting.
I'm going to bore scope the thing to make sure there aren't any glaring defects. I don't really care to shoot my barrel half out to make these work, but I'll probably use up what I have left at the lower velocities that work, and see if it works higher in a couple hundred more rounds.
jgal72
Well-Known Member
The 180 eldm's shoot sub 1/2 minute at 200 yards, 3225 fps on lab radar in my 28. Shot them twice this week out to 1000 yards. They shot all over a 4' x 4' steel plate at 1000. Sometimes missing the plate all together. My spotter couldn't see a vapor trail. Seems like the bullets are coming apart on me as well. Barrel is a Bartlien 8 twist.
In the ops case the thing that sticks out to me is the issues even with a min charge with the 195s. That should not happen in a custom premium barrel where specs should be held to the tenth. My guess is either something in the throat or bore. Its not as if you were pushing them only to 3200 but had them even around 3k doing the same thing. Combine the issue with the 195s where people are getting 2900+ with saami throats and your getting pressure witha starting load plus these coming apart something amiss in the tube IMO.
My smith borescoped my Proof barrel and said the lands look good but did see some tooling mark grooves in the grooves themselves. He said that could possibly be causing the issue and the only possibility he could see. He pulled my barrel and sent it back to Proof to see what they say about it.
He headspaces to a zero headspace with tight tolerances and reamed for the 180 class bullets. I have an HS Precision mag box with up to 3.70" only, not reamed for the 195's so maybe that's why the pressure with the 195's. I've read many others getting pressure with 195's (same as me) after 2nd or 3rd firing of the 28 Nosler "Nosler" brand brass. Either way, that's not what's in question or what the thread is about.
No word from Hornady yet, they have had them for a month now. Seems there are a decent number of people with them blowing up that I've heard about. If a newer barrel "sharp rifling" a warmer barrel (I'm in AZ), only can be shot well under 3200fps etc... or other specific conditions that have to be avoided or are required then maybe these 180 Hornadys just aren't for me.
This primarily is a hunting rifle and can't and won't risk even 1 bullet out 100 coming apart. As of now I think I'll just shoot Berger 180's and call it good regardless of what the determination is with Hornadys results or with the outcome of my Proof barrel.
He headspaces to a zero headspace with tight tolerances and reamed for the 180 class bullets. I have an HS Precision mag box with up to 3.70" only, not reamed for the 195's so maybe that's why the pressure with the 195's. I've read many others getting pressure with 195's (same as me) after 2nd or 3rd firing of the 28 Nosler "Nosler" brand brass. Either way, that's not what's in question or what the thread is about.
No word from Hornady yet, they have had them for a month now. Seems there are a decent number of people with them blowing up that I've heard about. If a newer barrel "sharp rifling" a warmer barrel (I'm in AZ), only can be shot well under 3200fps etc... or other specific conditions that have to be avoided or are required then maybe these 180 Hornadys just aren't for me.
This primarily is a hunting rifle and can't and won't risk even 1 bullet out 100 coming apart. As of now I think I'll just shoot Berger 180's and call it good regardless of what the determination is with Hornadys results or with the outcome of my Proof barrel.
