+1 good idea!
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1 gun for all???
- Thread starter oneluckypops
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oneluckypops
Member
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2011
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- 21
I hope everyone has had a Happy Thanksgiving. I sure enjoyed the small amount of time I was able to spend with my family.
While spending time with my family I was able to talk to my dad a little on the subject, I was also able to talk with my brother a little aswell.
They both brought up some interesting points that I will share with you all.
1. Elk hunting. They said that with the cost of elk hunting being so much that I would more then likely NOT have a chance to go very many times in my life, so I should choose a caliber that COULD be capable of taking them but not base my decision soley on that.
2. Deer hunting. They both agreed that although there are capabilities for longer range shots (700-1000 yards) MOST of my shots will be under 500 Yards.
3. Reloading cost. They also both agreed that, with me wanting to be able to do LRH and LRS then i would need alot of trigger time to prepare, and with the trigger time there will be alot of reloading, which If I was to choose a smaller more common caliber then reloading would be cheaper then if I was to choose a caliber that is not as common. (supply and deman).
Dad didn't really suggest anything impaticular for a cartridge, However My brother was trying to tell me about a few that I may be interested in. and they are: .270 WSM, 7mm rem mag, .280 Ackley improved, and a 338-06.
After discussing them for awhile, i think we have ruled out the .270 WSM NOT because it is a poor caliber, honestly I really like the balistics of it, BUT what I dont like about it is the lack of bullet choices. I do not care for the lighter weight bullets and the 270wsm limits me to 160 grain MAX.
He said the 7mm would be a good versitile cartridge, I have done some reading on it out of the nosler reloaders guide (5th edition) and it states that it is a fine cartridge for long range hunting, HOWEVER it is not a great choice for hunting in the woods and brush. I assume it is because of the bullet diameter.
The 280 AI was mentioned by both my dad and brother, My brother had him build his rifle chambered for the 280 AI so ofcourse I think hes a little partial to it lol. But he said it is eccentially the same thing as the 7mm with a standard bolt face, and about 10% less powder which would decrease the cost of reloading. He also said the bullet choices for the 280 and 7mm would be a little better then the 270 wsm, largest bullet I found in the nosler book is 175 grain, That is a little better for my likeing but honestly its still a little lighter then i would really like.
he also mentioned that if I chambered in the 280 AI, I would have the choice to re barrell to a 338-06 with out having to change the bolt face, if I felt that I needed to for long range elk hunting.
Another that was mentioned was the 300 WSM, I am personally concerned about this cartridge simply because of bad reviews I have received from other gun enthusiest in my area that have tried it. I wish I could remember for sure what they had said that was bad about it, but unfortiontly I can NOT. Can anyone enlighten me on what it might have been? It may have just been the felt recoil of there particular rifles.
Recoil was another thing they had mentioned, they said that If I choose a smaller caliber that COULD do the job with less recoil then I would improve in my shooting abilities much faster then if I went with the bigger magnum calibers.
What is everyones thoughts on this thus far?
What calibers are capable of the task at hand with the least amount of recoil?
Also am I being to picky with the bullet choices? I would like to be able to shoot 165's and up, though i would like to shoot coyotes I am NOT worried about the destruction it would do with the heavier bullets. (they just need thinned out).
1 other question does BERGER still NOT have a reloading manual out on the market yet? All I have to look at is the nosler book and I dont think that is apples to apples when I dont plan on shooting nosler.
While spending time with my family I was able to talk to my dad a little on the subject, I was also able to talk with my brother a little aswell.
They both brought up some interesting points that I will share with you all.
1. Elk hunting. They said that with the cost of elk hunting being so much that I would more then likely NOT have a chance to go very many times in my life, so I should choose a caliber that COULD be capable of taking them but not base my decision soley on that.
2. Deer hunting. They both agreed that although there are capabilities for longer range shots (700-1000 yards) MOST of my shots will be under 500 Yards.
3. Reloading cost. They also both agreed that, with me wanting to be able to do LRH and LRS then i would need alot of trigger time to prepare, and with the trigger time there will be alot of reloading, which If I was to choose a smaller more common caliber then reloading would be cheaper then if I was to choose a caliber that is not as common. (supply and deman).
Dad didn't really suggest anything impaticular for a cartridge, However My brother was trying to tell me about a few that I may be interested in. and they are: .270 WSM, 7mm rem mag, .280 Ackley improved, and a 338-06.
After discussing them for awhile, i think we have ruled out the .270 WSM NOT because it is a poor caliber, honestly I really like the balistics of it, BUT what I dont like about it is the lack of bullet choices. I do not care for the lighter weight bullets and the 270wsm limits me to 160 grain MAX.
He said the 7mm would be a good versitile cartridge, I have done some reading on it out of the nosler reloaders guide (5th edition) and it states that it is a fine cartridge for long range hunting, HOWEVER it is not a great choice for hunting in the woods and brush. I assume it is because of the bullet diameter.
The 280 AI was mentioned by both my dad and brother, My brother had him build his rifle chambered for the 280 AI so ofcourse I think hes a little partial to it lol. But he said it is eccentially the same thing as the 7mm with a standard bolt face, and about 10% less powder which would decrease the cost of reloading. He also said the bullet choices for the 280 and 7mm would be a little better then the 270 wsm, largest bullet I found in the nosler book is 175 grain, That is a little better for my likeing but honestly its still a little lighter then i would really like.
he also mentioned that if I chambered in the 280 AI, I would have the choice to re barrell to a 338-06 with out having to change the bolt face, if I felt that I needed to for long range elk hunting.
Another that was mentioned was the 300 WSM, I am personally concerned about this cartridge simply because of bad reviews I have received from other gun enthusiest in my area that have tried it. I wish I could remember for sure what they had said that was bad about it, but unfortiontly I can NOT. Can anyone enlighten me on what it might have been? It may have just been the felt recoil of there particular rifles.
Recoil was another thing they had mentioned, they said that If I choose a smaller caliber that COULD do the job with less recoil then I would improve in my shooting abilities much faster then if I went with the bigger magnum calibers.
What is everyones thoughts on this thus far?
What calibers are capable of the task at hand with the least amount of recoil?
Also am I being to picky with the bullet choices? I would like to be able to shoot 165's and up, though i would like to shoot coyotes I am NOT worried about the destruction it would do with the heavier bullets. (they just need thinned out).
1 other question does BERGER still NOT have a reloading manual out on the market yet? All I have to look at is the nosler book and I dont think that is apples to apples when I dont plan on shooting nosler.
One Lucky,
Oh to have to make the decision you are burdened with....
Practically speaking, anything in the 7 RM, 300 WM, 300 WBY, 338 realm will cleanly harvest the animals you are interested in. The difference in powder costs will be inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. And there is no such thing as "over kill" at short distances. Dead is dead. We owe it to the game animals we hunt to "use enough gun", and, practice often so that only one well placed shot is necessary. If recoil is an issue, and you plan to hand load, you can always down load to suit the situation. As mentioned above, choosing a chambering for the .308 bore size will give you the broadest selection of bullet choices for the foreseeable future.
I am toying with the same concept. I have the donor action (Rem 700 SS LA LH). I am personally debating between the 300H&H, 300WM and 300WBY.
Good luck to you with which ever combination you choose ! Let us know what you finally decide...
Oh to have to make the decision you are burdened with....
Practically speaking, anything in the 7 RM, 300 WM, 300 WBY, 338 realm will cleanly harvest the animals you are interested in. The difference in powder costs will be inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. And there is no such thing as "over kill" at short distances. Dead is dead. We owe it to the game animals we hunt to "use enough gun", and, practice often so that only one well placed shot is necessary. If recoil is an issue, and you plan to hand load, you can always down load to suit the situation. As mentioned above, choosing a chambering for the .308 bore size will give you the broadest selection of bullet choices for the foreseeable future.
I am toying with the same concept. I have the donor action (Rem 700 SS LA LH). I am personally debating between the 300H&H, 300WM and 300WBY.
Good luck to you with which ever combination you choose ! Let us know what you finally decide...
oneluckypops
Member
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2011
- Messages
- 21
Is there anyplace on the web that I can review all the different calibers side by side to possably aid me in my decision? Was hoping for a berger book but dont hink that is gonna happen.
AJ Peacock
Well-Known Member
The 7mm Rem Mag is an awesome cartridge. I've hunted with one for 30+ years and it "just works". It does have a few downsides 1) Belted cartridge 2) Not as efficient as newer "fat" designs.
A 280AI is ballistically very close to the 7RM until you get into the heavier (160-175gr) bullets.
The 300WSM is basically equivalent to the 7RM as well.
The downside of the 300WSM, is that it's typically built on a short action, which reduces its ability to reach full potential with the heavy bullets. You can get past that issue easily, by building on a long action. The 300WSM barrel will last longer than an equivalent 7mm RM.
I don't know what negatives you've heard about the 300wsm, but it is an incredible round. It's being used in competition and hunting, with great success. My 300wsm shoots in the 1//3 moa range and it's just an off the shelf Savage.
I have 3 friends that built 338 wildcats from the 300wsm and hunt with them every year for elk in Colorado. With the case capacity and bore diameter of the 338-300wsm, those barrels should last forever. A nice heavy round nose 338 bullet moderately loaded would be an awesome whitetail/bear rifle. Replace the round nose with a high BC bullet and it would be a fine elk rifle.
The good news about all the calibers you are discussing, none of them are poor choices.
A 280AI is ballistically very close to the 7RM until you get into the heavier (160-175gr) bullets.
The 300WSM is basically equivalent to the 7RM as well.
The downside of the 300WSM, is that it's typically built on a short action, which reduces its ability to reach full potential with the heavy bullets. You can get past that issue easily, by building on a long action. The 300WSM barrel will last longer than an equivalent 7mm RM.
I don't know what negatives you've heard about the 300wsm, but it is an incredible round. It's being used in competition and hunting, with great success. My 300wsm shoots in the 1//3 moa range and it's just an off the shelf Savage.
I have 3 friends that built 338 wildcats from the 300wsm and hunt with them every year for elk in Colorado. With the case capacity and bore diameter of the 338-300wsm, those barrels should last forever. A nice heavy round nose 338 bullet moderately loaded would be an awesome whitetail/bear rifle. Replace the round nose with a high BC bullet and it would be a fine elk rifle.
The good news about all the calibers you are discussing, none of them are poor choices.
ken snyder
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2010
- Messages
- 420
Around my mud puddle that will be two rifles. If your Dad has a good 98 and the good ones are getting pretty scarce. The 260 is probably the most common LR Deer build. About the only ones still building them are the older guys that bought a Station Wagon full of them for 50 dollars back in 69 and get one while you can. As far as Roosevelt Elk and Mauser similar actions. The 338-378 built on an inexpensive CZ 550 magnum action with set trigger is extremely popular. If both are reserved for ''hunting only" they will be around for your Grandchildren to burn out the Barrel.
AJ Peacock
Well-Known Member
If you can find someone locally that has a copy of Quickload (computer program for reloading), you could compare the cartridges side by side with whatever loads/barrel lengths/bullets you wish.
Or you could give yourself an early Christmas gift and buy yourself a copy.
If you reload, Quickload is a reference tool that is beyond useful.
AJ
oneluckypops
Member
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2011
- Messages
- 21
lol I dont know anyone that has it, and if i got that the wife would say NO to a gun. I think I will just refrence off of the nosler book and make a spreadsheet for side by side comparisons. who knows maybe it will help someone else out in the future.
midnightmalloy
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2010
- Messages
- 842
Ok. I will chime in and say a 7saum or 7 wsm on a long action. Use a long 26" or longer barrel, get a muzzle brake and have 3 loads. 1. General lurpose load of 168gr berger vld at 3000fps. Then a coyote load of 120 gr vxax at 3200. And lastly if you tackle elk use a 180 gr vld and push it to 2900-3000 fps . A lot less recoil than the big 30' s and fully capable and excellent at what your asking for. Look at the cartrige guide on 6mmbr.com for some good articles. Also look into a 6.5 of some sort.
Nimrod
Well-Known Member
I would have your dad to build one exactly like he would build for himself. It seems he likes Mausers so that would be the action of choice. Any of the calibers mentioned would work pretty well, BUT, I would have it built in a classic chambering like the 7X57 or 6.5X55. They won't be the best choice for long range but I would get a dedicated rifle for that pursuit. You will have something to pass down to your grandson one day and something that can drop a whitetail out to 400 yards or so without too much trouble.
I am a little nostalgic but hey it's a good reason to add another gun to the rack
I am a little nostalgic but hey it's a good reason to add another gun to the rack
oneluckypops
Member
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2011
- Messages
- 21
AJ Peacock
Well-Known Member
If you narrow your selection down to 3-4 cartridges and post what you'd like to compare, somebody
will certainly run them in quickload and post the results.Make sure to post the barrel length, and bullet weight for each cartridge.
AJ
bigngreen
Well-Known Member
You missed two great bullets, the 165 Matrix with a .650+ BC and the 175 Matrix at .700+BC. My accuracy load for the 165 is running 3053FPS idling and the 175 3014 FPS. Hard to beat out to a 1000yrds and I took a bull at 865 yrds easily with it this year. Really when you look at what is available and what gets used the 270 does not lack bullets any longer!!
