Is our current hunting practice sustainable?

Hey guys, I assume this might not be a popular topic, but I figured it was worth bringing up. I assume most folks on here love hunting as much as I do, and I got into a discussion with some other folks about the way things are going in the hunting world. I wrote down what I think is a valid problem at least in some parts of our country, and I'm curious what others think about it.

"To put it simply, there are more and more hunters every year, and we are getting more and more efficient at killing game because of technology and our numbers..."


Read the whole thing here

If hunting was the only issue, I see no problem. However, in my area, the population which admittedly was getting a bit high a few years ago, is starting to be reduced by nuisance hunters on farms with permits. These guys are dropping hundreds of deer just in my county, and letting them lay.
2 sides of that coin: the population reduction is gonna help reduce CWD and other problems, but the increase in hunters coupled with reduced population is pushing more deer into suburban areas instead of rural areas. In the last few years I have noticed a dramatic increase of deer in city limits and less in the surrounding farms and woods that I hunt.

Hugger-4641 said:

the population which admittedly was getting a bit high a few years ago, is starting to be reduced by nuisance hunters on farms with permits.

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Thats a whole nother issue I guess I hadn't even thought of. We don't have that issue so much out here in the west.

When it comes to game populations habitat is always the most important factor. Bulldozing land to build subdivisions is more of a threat. I doubt that hunter numbers are going up with the boomer generation passing.

cajun said:

When it comes to game populations habitat is always the most important factor. Bulldozing land to build subdivisions is more of a threat. I doubt that hunter numbers are going up with the boomer generation passing.

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Just my anecdotal observation in my area, but I noticed a great reduction in trucks parked by gates and shots heard during Covid and the CWD scare from 2020 to 2023. I rather enjoyed the selection of animals I had to choose from and had no problem filling my freezer as early as I wanted to for the last 3yrs.This year seems to have nearly returned to pre-covid hunting activity. I think many who were scared of CWD are returning to hunt. I think this is also partially a result of TN's new rule this year. We are only allowed two bucks per season, but this year, if you turn in a doe for CWD testing, you get another buck tag regardless of test result.

Hugger-4641 said:

Just my anecdotal observation in my area, but I noticed a great reduction in trucks parked by gates and shots heard during Covid and the CWD scare from 2020 to 2023. I rather enjoyed the selection of animals I had to choose from and had no problem filling my freezer as early as I wanted to for the last 3yrs.This year seems to have nearly returned to pre-covid hunting activity. I think many who were scared of CWD are returning to hunt. I think this is also partially a result of TN's new rule this year. We are only allowed two bucks per season, but this year, if you turn in a doe for CWD testing, you get another buck tag regardless of test result.

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Further to your east, during Covid, I'd venture a guess that the number of hunters and fisherman increased. I sold puppies faster at higher price during Covid across the country because people were getting into waterfowling and wanting dogs or wanted dogs to start running field trials and hunt tests. I had more people trespassing the last few years than ever before but we've put a stop to that. I still see the same populations of deer and the dog hunters sure haven't slowed down.

It's a multifaceted issue for certain, greatly affected by location and agencies.

Successive hard winters can be devastating. Over predation, whether by man or beast has a huge impact as well. And some of these animals are out of the states management abilities.

And as hugger pointed out, habitat destruction is a primary concern. We're fortunate that conservationists like Teddy Roosevelt had the foresight to preserve some spectacular lands. Not certain many today would do such things, given the choice, even if given opportunity.

Downtown in major cities, you might not have deer running down the street.

But deer find a way to survive.

I know a few guys that archery hunt IN Pittsburgh.
Small lots with no houses on them are producing some big bucks. Within city limits.

Go to suburbia...
I know of more than a couple of Virginia State Police, along with county officers that have begged me for years to go sit on the roof of their garages and take out deer in Centerville VA.
They are willing to overlook numerous violations to cut down the deer population.

That's why they reintroduced wolves. No need for human hunters, right?

In Pennsylvania, when I first started hunting (1982) there were 1.1 million hunting licenses sold. This year, I heard it was just under 500,000. Where I hunted, in the 80s, on public game lands it was hard to walk more than 100yds without running into another hunter. Nowadays, not so much.

I'd appreciate data showing that growing hunter numbers are a broadly supported trend. Even with a great number more deer than when I was a young hunter, shots heard in the opening days of deer season are a fraction. You used to see orange on every property, now it's a fraction. Hunter numbers are both down everywhere I hunt, as is access to land to hunt. People just won't take the liability of letting folks they don't know hunt their land so much goes unhunted. Couple that with the trend to demand high trespass or lease payments instead of the old practice of simply giving permission.

Hunting and game challenges are highly regional. Where I'm at in Indiana now, at my home place the problem is the change in farming practices leading to maximizing arable land at the expense of any woodlots and fencerows, leaving VERY little deer habitat. So numbers are very low. Conversely 80 miles away at my hunting property we really have no issues to speak of, except blue tongue going through every 5-7 years. Where I grew up in Michigan the deer are out of control, partially because trends have changed (see first paragraph) couples with a 2 buck limit meaning nobody shoots does. 100-150 deer grazing a single 80 acre soybean field in the spring, leaving 20 acres completely ruined. We had 10 crop damage permits this year and filled them in 3 hours of hunting, deer were walking all around us while we were trying to recover them.

Unfortunately the game animals in certain parts of the west, and I can only speak for the areas I hunt in Montana but have talked to many in Idaho and Wyoming, where the populations are declining every year and even finding a decent representation of the species is hard to see let alone take. Our fish and game department only cares about dollars. What can we get right now and how do we do it, they are not looking five, ten or fifteen years down the road they are looking at today. Changing game laws, adding antler restrictions, even closing areas to help the herds recuperate would be the right thing to do but they are too afraid of losing money. I have hunted this state for 34 years now. When I moved here in the late 80's it was a hunters paradise. The Bitterroot valley, where I live was loaded with elk and deer, going to eastern Montana to hunt Antelope and Mule deer was a yearly family trip that we so much looked forward to. Most everything in the Bitterroot was an open permit area for deer and elk. You could by the tag over the counter as a resident and fill it with a reasonable amount of effort. You always saw game animals, you just weren't always in the right spot to take them, hence the word hunting. Now the Bitterroot is almost 100% permit drawn areas and if you do get a tag good luck finding anything to take a shot at on Public land. Between the wolves and several other issues I wont bring up, your lucky to find an animal to fill your tag with on public land and when you do someone just might shoot it right out of your scope. I spent four days in eastern Montana this year looking for Muleys, we actually saw quite a few, which was great, but not one single mature buck to provide seed for the next year or future generations. Fork horns chasing does everywhere. Lots of two and three point bucks in the backs of trucks because there is nothing else around. Don't get me wrong, if I paid out of state prices for a western tag I would want some meat to take home as well, but at the rate we are going there won't be anything left to hunt in five years. Something has got to be done and our fish and game departments, at least in Montana, aren't the ones that are going to do it. If you hunt in a state where the hunting is still good on public land be thankful, what you have is a blessing, cherish it because before you know it, it will be gone as well.

Interesting, CO elk public land stats show an average of 5-6 years of hunting to harvest 1 elk

It also depends on unit

Things like this are "point of view" not based on facts that cover a wide area of territory or thought.

Where i live there are too many deer. Vehicle strikes are higher when population is up. There are bow hunts in city limits because there are vehicle strikes in neighborhoods.

Hunters are not taking enough to slow it down.