Siggestions for tuning 300wsm/215hyb ?

So I've been playing with my 300wsm for a while and I'm trying to fine tune my load as I'm getting occasional flyers in my group size from 1 range trip to the next.

Suggestions are welcome

I've tried rl23 and rl26- I'm getting a bit more speed with the 26 but also about 10fps higher on the ES and more prevalent swipes so if I stuck with the rl26 load I'd really need to back off some and then it would be about the same speeds as the 23 load anyway so I'm gonna stick with the rl23.

Rifle specs-- Barrel is 24"- twist is 1:10- max mag length is 3.120", saami chamber. Redding dies

load right now is Norma brass, cci BR2 primer, neck touched up for even thickness, shoulder bumped 2 thou, factory ammmo fired once, brass annealed, fired again (so I'm working with 2x fired brass)--- rounds are set at 3.075" c.o.a.l. which is .01" jump to lands. - sizing without an expander then using a .307 mandrel. Rl23 @ 63.0gr- speed is right around 2800fps with an ES of 25 and SD of 8- can just barely start to see a faint ejector mark on the brass.

I've shot this with a mb and suppressor and it groups tight with both but I have a slight shift low with the suppressor but not too bad (about 1/2" @ 100y)

I'm getting really good 5 shot groups 1 time to the range .25" @ 100y, then next trip it opens up to .6-.7" @ 100---- i know, neither is anything to bat and eye at but consistency is my goal here. I have not tested this further than 100 yet-- I usually try to dial it in at 100, then go to the "long range" and test it out to 6-700 to verify drops and groups due to range availability.

Maybe it's just me having on/off days?

Factory norma 180 bond strike was 1.5-2"(never checked the speeds, just shot for brass due to the deal i got on the ammo), and I tried a quick and dirty load of rl16 with the 178ahh and it came out with around 1" groups at 3050fps

Sometimes I can account the shift to a "pull" other times it all feels good but groups are larger --when I get the larger groups it's always just 1 shot that opens it up and it seems to be "trip sensitive" , that is it will group well consistently on 1 range trip then open up on a different range trip, then back to tight groups next time-- etc.

I'm using br2 primers, but I also have cci 250, and 215 gmmm primers---

Do you think a primer change might help my ES and "flyer"?
Maybe it's just me?
Any other suggestions?
I don't think I want to increase the bullet jump more as I'd be compressing powder more and don't want to increase pressure at this point.
Cleaning issues? I lightly clean after every range trip but dont "scrub the bore clean"
"Break in issues" I think I'm around 100 rounds down the barrel right now

Maybe I should stifle my ocd and leave it alone and just shoot more.....

If it were me, I'd probably leave the load alone unless it starts opening up.

Is your rifle bedded?

cohunt said:

So I've been playing with my 300wsm for a while and I'm trying to fine tune my load as I'm getting occasional flyers in my group size from 1 range trip to the next.

Suggestions are welcome

I've tried rl23 and rl26- I'm getting a bit more speed with the 26 but also about 10fps higher on the ES and more prevalent swipes so if I stuck with the rl26 load I'd really need to back off some and then it would be about the same speeds as the 23 load anyway so I'm gonna stick with the rl23.

Rifle specs-- Barrel is 24"- twist is 1:10- max mag length is 3.120", saami chamber. Redding dies

load right now is Norma brass, cci BR2 primer, neck touched up for even thickness, shoulder bumped 2 thou, factory ammmo fired once, brass annealed, fired again (so I'm working with 2x fired brass)--- rounds are set at 3.075" c.o.a.l. which is .01" jump to lands. - sizing without an expander then using a .307 mandrel. Rl23 @ 63.0gr- speed is right around 2800fps with an ES of 25 and SD of 8- can just barely start to see a faint ejector mark on the brass.

I've shot this with a mb and suppressor and it groups tight with both but I have a slight shift low with the suppressor but not too bad (about 1/2" @ 100y)

I'm getting really good 5 shot groups 1 time to the range .25" @ 100y, then next trip it opens up to .6-.7" @ 100---- i know, neither is anything to bat and eye at but consistency is my goal here. I have not tested this further than 100 yet-- I usually try to dial it in at 100, then go to the "long range" and test it out to 6-700 to verify drops and groups due to range availability.

Maybe it's just me having on/off days?

Factory norma 180 bond strike was 1.5-2"(never checked the speeds, just shot for brass due to the deal i got on the ammo), and I tried a quick and dirty load of rl16 with the 178ahh and it came out with around 1" groups at 3050fps

Sometimes I can account the shift to a "pull" other times it all feels good but groups are larger --when I get the larger groups it's always just 1 shot that opens it up and it seems to be "trip sensitive" , that is it will group well consistently on 1 range trip then open up on a different range trip, then back to tight groups next time-- etc.

I'm using br2 primers, but I also have cci 250, and 215 gmmm primers---

Do you think a primer change might help my ES and "flyer"?
Maybe it's just me?
Any other suggestions?
I don't think I want to increase the bullet jump more as I'd be compressing powder more and don't want to increase pressure at this point.
Cleaning issues? I lightly clean after every range trip but dont "scrub the bore clean"
"Break in issues" I think I'm around 100 rounds down the barrel right now

Maybe I should stifle my ocd and leave it alone and just shoot more.....

Click to expand...

My Shilen barrelled 300 WSM likes 168 TTSX bullets in front of H-4350 or H-4831. I've been using winchester LRM primers and they have worked well too. Optimal seating depth has been anywhere from 35 to 65 thousandths off with the recommended 50 as good as anything. 5 shot groups have consistently been 1/2 to 5/8". Velocity has been 3100+ with the loads I've been making and no elk has excaped yet!!

Only thing I would do Is get lapua or adg brass and check over rifle.

Having shot thousands of 215's...try .015-.018 off and then again around .025-.030 off. There is another spot about .060 off that some rifles like. YMMV

Some other powders that work great with Whizzum and 215's....H4350 N555 RL16 if you have any of those available you could try those.

FireFlyFishing said:

If it were me, I'd probably leave the load alone unless it starts opening up.

Is your rifle bedded?

Click to expand...

Pretty sure it has alum pillars (grayboe renegade) but not sure about other bedding-- I'll have to check it out.

Beluebow said:

Having shot thousands of 215's...try .015-.018 off and then again around .025-.030 off. There is another spot about .060 off that some rifles like. YMMV

Some other powders that work great with Whizzum and 215's....H4350 N555 RL16 if you have any of those available you could try those.

Click to expand...

I do have rl16-- any load suggestions/speeds if I end up trying that powder? I may try .015" also as it's only .005" deeper

I know Fenix uses rl17 with 215's with great results

Try another rimer and back off your load and work up again.

When i started using br2 primers (only change to my load), I lost almost 40 fps. And those primers just fall to pieces when depriming.

cohunt said:

I do have rl16-- any load suggestions/speeds if I end up trying that powder? I know Fenix uses rl17 with 215's with great results

Click to expand...

If you are getting faint ejector marks at 2800 I would be hesitant to suggest a starting load. Mine tune between 60.9-62gr depending on the barrel and lot of powder.Mine typically run in the 2870-2940 area.

I also use the same combo of Norma brass and BR2's and or Fed210m's. Fed210m's seem to be the ticket with RL23.

Tiny Tim said:

Try another rimer and back off your load and work up again.

When i started using br2 primers (only change to my load), I lost almost 40 fps. And those primers just fall to pieces when depriming.

Click to expand...

Br2's are supposed to be the same as 250's with tighter quality control is what I have gleaned from ramblings over the years--- I'm tempted to try the fgmmm and see what they do

I'm also wondering if it's related to trigger pull weight inconsistencies?

cohunt said:

Br2's are supposed to be the same as 250's with tighter quality control is what I have gleaned from ramblings over the years--- I'm tempted to try the fgmmm and see what they do

I'm also wondering if it's related to trigger pull weight inconsistencies?

Click to expand...

How bad is the trigger? What action? Factory trigger? Inconsistent trigger can have alot of effect, depending on stability of your shooting platform.

Tiny Tim said:

How bad is the trigger? What action? Factory trigger? Inconsistent trigger can have alot of effect, depending on stability of your shooting platform.

Click to expand...

Factory trigger- It's set as low as I can get it at 2lbs 9oz but I like it around 2 pounds and this seems like it's harder to pull sometimes-- breaks pretty crisp/clean but pull weight seems to differ occasionally.
For load development I shoot off a bench with front adjustable rest and rear bag--- my set up is fairly stable

I was trying to stray away from saying what brand/model rifle this was as then I'd get opinions based on assumptions and internet gunk, but I don't think there are any aftermarket options for triggers or springs for this specific rifle/model

Any chance you or a good smith could polish the mating surfaces? At least make it consistent. Sounds like you have a good rifle and your able to self diagnose the issues.

Norma brass does NOT like full throttle loads, it will expand differently between shots and cause what you are seeing, the webs are very thin.
If you throttle it back, it may just cure the fliers, if not, adjust seating depth in .005" increments.
As to powder, I have no experience with either, but RL17 was the best in all of my WSM wildcats.

Cheers.