Tuning a load

[TOM H]

Thank you all for your ideas. They are greatly appreciated! I plan to use this rifle for hunting, and not for Bench shooting, so I doubt I will try jamming the bullet into the lands, but does .010" off of the lands sound like a good starting place and then working back out? Where I am going to be trying this for the first time I am not entirely sure that I want to get any closer than that until I am confident that I am finding the distance to the lands accurately.

Mike, what you said about changing the OAL after finding an accurate load makes sense.

Again, Thank you all for your advice! I was able to go out tonight and start breaking the barrel in, and this weekend I will be able to start working on the fun partgun)

One thing you have to remember your shooting factory rifle some are shooting custom so throating may be different.

As you seen or read Berger had a way to try for a factory chamber you might want to try that to be safe. I'm not shooting factory chamber rifles so I would expect you to use my seating depth.

 

[jasent]

I always start working up a load with the bullet seated at the rifling. Then when I find my load I play with seating depth working back of the rifling to tune it, most of my guns often have several sweet spots in seating depth. After that I may play with primers.

 

[lloydsmale]

The way i go about a new rilfe is to pick about 5 bullets that will do what i want the gun to do. The bullet is usually the biggest variable in accuracy. I load those 5 bullets with maybe 3 differnt powders in a burn rate that again is good for where i want to end up with. I load 5 rounds of each and go out and shoot those groups. I seat the bullets to the oveal lenght recomended in a manual. If Out of those 15 groups i cant find something that i can live with I pick the two loads that had the best group and then start varying powder charge up and down a grain, try diferent primers and seating depts. Those first 15 groups will usually get a decent group and if it doesnt the gun probably just isnt going to shoot.

 

[4xforfun]

The way i go about a new rilfe is to pick about 5 bullets that will do what i want the gun to do. The bullet is usually the biggest variable in accuracy. I load those 5 bullets with maybe 3 differnt powders in a burn rate that again is good for where i want to end up with. I load 5 rounds of each and go out and shoot those groups. I seat the bullets to the oveal lenght recomended in a manual. If Out of those 15 groups i cant find something that i can live with I pick the two loads that had the best group and then start varying powder charge up and down a grain, try diferent primers and seating depts. Those first 15 groups will usually get a decent group and if it doesnt the gun probably just isnt going to shoot.

So lets see....

5 different bullets
3 different powders
a couple different primers
at least 5 different charge weights with EACH powder/bullet/primer combo.....if you are going to do it right, that is.
AND...AND you are going to mess with seating depths!!!

I see about a hundred groups....BEFORE you start messing with seating depths!!!

I'll save you some time.

First...pick the caliber.

Second pick ONE bullet that will best suit your needs. it will help you if you ask people here about "which bullit"....even though it has been asked a million times.

Third, pick the brains of the people here on this website who shoot your chosen bullet/caliber combo about which powder/primer/ combo that they use.

Forth...forget the manual when it comes to seating depth.....measure your chamber, and if you have one and are going to use it, measure your mag length...and start twenty thou in..or out...or where ever you wish. Load up four or five different charge weights and test.

With every gun I load for I find two things...where max loads are with this perticular rifle, and where the accuracy nodes are. I keep going up till I see PSI signs...only then will you know!!! If that takes several more rounds down the tube, i am good with that.

 

[jkupper]

First...pick the caliber.

Second pick ONE bullet that will best suit your needs. it will help you if you ask people here about "which bullit"....even though it has been asked a million times.

Third, pick the brains of the people here on this website who shoot your chosen bullet/caliber combo about which powder/primer/ combo that they use.

Forth...forget the manual when it comes to seating depth.....measure your chamber, and if you have one and are going to use it, measure your mag length...and start twenty thou in..or out...or where ever you wish. Load up four or five different charge weights and test.

With every gun I load for I find two things...where max loads are with this perticular rifle, and where the accuracy nodes are. I keep going up till I see PSI signs...only then will you know!!! If that takes several more rounds down the tube, i am good with that.

I think I am going to go with this model, because it is similar to my old way of doing things and makes sense to me.

Caliber - 7mm RM
Bullet - 168 Berger hunting VLD
Will be measuring my chamber tomorrow
Powders - H-1000 and Retumbo

Anyone have any loads that work out of their 7RM with a stock 700 barrel?

 

[4xforfun]

I think I am going to go with this model, because it is similar to my old way of doing things and makes sense to me.

Caliber - 7mm RM
Bullet - 168 Berger hunting VLD
Will be measuring my chamber tomorrow
Powders - H-1000 and Retumbo

Anyone have any loads that work out of their 7RM with a stock 700 barrel?

Caliber...awesome

Bullet...awesome

powder....if it were me, I would go strait to the H1000. I have loaded for many stock rem 7 mags......H1000 has been my go to powders for ALL OF THEM!!

Make sure that the OAL you find for your chamber fits in your mag. With the 7MM REM MAG, that should not be any problem.

Check one of the loading manuals for a starting load and let your gun tell you where to finish. i personoly like to go up in 1/2 grain incruments. I have seen as little as a couple of thenths of a grain compleatly change the group size.

 

[jkupper]

I will definately start with the H-1000 then. I had to go out and get some this week because this is my first magnum gun, and dad has a 308 norma mag, but only loads 4350 or 4831 (can't remember which) in it. I have seen several posts where people have been shooting the h-1000 ina 7mmRM. Is Retumbo just not very good? I've seen several posts that don't care for it, and some that do, but the h1000 seems to be the powder of choice overall.

Not to worried about the mag at this point. It seems like there will be plenty of room there, but will shoot it single shot to get good accuracy if I have to.

 

[Joe King]

Retumbo works great for the 180's or bullets with a longer bearing length, H100seems to be in that sweet spot for the 168's. This past season I gave the 168gr classic hunter a go and I have to say it shot well for me all through the load work up. One thing I found with it is that that bullet is really insensitive to seating depth, I mean the difference between the worst and best when I varied seating depth was only a 1/4moa. But (Walt did say this when I emailed him about it) you'll see a velocity drop from what the VLD gets, apparently it is due to the longer bearing length. As for on game performance, I shot a muley at about 50yrds, no it didn't exit, didn't expect it to with an impact vel of 2900fps, but I didn't loose much meat at all either. The pressure wave though deflated his heart, it was weird it was like an empty sack.

In my research of 168gr loads using H1000 I found most settle on their powder charge between 69gr and 71gr with the majority being around 70gr.

 

[4xforfun]

I will definately start with the H-1000 then. I had to go out and get some this week because this is my first magnum gun, and dad has a 308 norma mag, but only loads 4350 or 4831 (can't remember which) in it. I have seen several posts where people have been shooting the h-1000 ina 7mmRM. Is Retumbo just not very good? I've seen several posts that don't care for it, and some that do, but the h1000 seems to be the powder of choice overall.

Not to worried about the mag at this point. It seems like there will be plenty of room there, but will shoot it single shot to get good accuracy if I have to.

No....don't get me wrong...Retumbo is wonderfull powder...I just think that it is a tad slow for the 7REM.....maybe when the Berger 195 comes out I will change my tune. So are the various 4350's and 4831's...just a tad fast for the 7 when using 168 class bullets. That H1000, and maybe even RL22, is right in the wheelhouse of the 7 with the 168 class pills. Near 100 % load densities and the h1000 is very temp stable.

Now, I was told once that there HAS to be something out there better than H1000. Probably is...maybe one guns might like 7828 or rl22 or ...what ever. It took me a while....and I still fight the "infection"...to realize when good enough is good enough. Lets say you acheve a .6 moa load for your factory gun.....I am just throwing numbers up...you pick it if you would like. There very well might be a combo out there that gets you 30% smaller groups. WOW...30 %....that's alot. Yes...in benchrest maybe..but not hunting. that thirty % took you from 6 inch groups at 1000 to 4 inch groups at 1000. H U G E in 1000 BR...meaningless in a hunting situation....instead of missing dead center aim by 2 inches, you missed by 3 inches at 1000....meaningless....and may well take you a few hundred rounds to find. I love trigger time, but sometimes enough is enough. But...like I said....it is an infection. TINKERITCE....and it's all fun!!!!

Give H1000 a try...it's a factory gun, so I make no promises, but you should find an accurate, high velocity load for your 7 mag.

 

[jkupper]

Joe, thanks for the info on the Retumbo. I am thinking about trying the 180's later on, so I will definitely hang onto it for later use.

4xForfun, I think this 700 is going to be a shooter! I bought a box of federal ammo because I had the urge to shoot the gun while I was waiting for the supplies to come in. As I was working through them and breaking in the barrel, I save the last 4 rounds. They were just the Federal blue box 175 gr. SP. I shot the first one to foul the barrel again after the break in cleaning. I then shot a three shot group with the last three. they made a nice 3/4" clover leaf at 100 yards. I'm sure I can do a little better than that with some hand loads worked up. I was fairly tickled that it shot factory ammo that well as none of my other rifles have. Makes me want togun)gun)gun)

 

[lloydsmale]

you might get away with that in a custom barreled gun or a factory rifle if 1.5 inch 100 yard groups are your goal but most factory rifles are pretty picky about what it takes to make them moa. If you REALLY WANT to know what shoots the absolute best in your gun the ONLY way your going to find out is to shoot it. Your not going to find it with one bullet and your sure not going to find it by asking what someone elses gun on the internet shoots well. you might get some good starting advice as to which bullets or powders to try. That advice will help most inexperienced loaders get a start but most here allready know the basics and know what MIGHT shoot well in a certain caliber. Ive been handloading for 40 years. In that time ive owned and loaded for AT LEAST 50 bolt action and single shot rilfes. Probably close to twice that. Ive NEVER saw a gun that did its absolute best with the first bullet and powder combo ive tried in it. Your one lucky sob if it happened to you and if your claiming it happened more then once your either blessed by God or just another internet expert. Sure would be nice though to be so intellegent that when i bought a new gun I knew what it would shoot. It would sure make those 2 or 3 hundred boxes of bullets on the shelf seem silly and the cabinet full of differnt powders.

So lets see....

5 different bullets
3 different powders
a couple different primers
at least 5 different charge weights with EACH powder/bullet/primer combo.....if you are going to do it right, that is.
AND...AND you are going to mess with seating depths!!!

I see about a hundred groups....BEFORE you start messing with seating depths!!!

I'll save you some time.

First...pick the caliber.

Second pick ONE bullet that will best suit your needs. it will help you if you ask people here about "which bullit"....even though it has been asked a million times.

Third, pick the brains of the people here on this website who shoot your chosen bullet/caliber combo about which powder/primer/ combo that they use.

Forth...forget the manual when it comes to seating depth.....measure your chamber, and if you have one and are going to use it, measure your mag length...and start twenty thou in..or out...or where ever you wish. Load up four or five different charge weights and test.

With every gun I load for I find two things...where max loads are with this perticular rifle, and where the accuracy nodes are. I keep going up till I see PSI signs...only then will you know!!! If that takes several more rounds down the tube, i am good with that.

 

[4xforfun]

you might get away with that in a custom barreled gun or a factory rifle if 1.5 inch 100 yard groups are your goal but most factory rifles are pretty picky about what it takes to make them moa. If you REALLY WANT to know what shoots the absolute best in your gun the ONLY way your going to find out is to shoot it. Your not going to find it with one bullet and your sure not going to find it by asking what someone elses gun on the internet shoots well. you might get some good starting advice as to which bullets or powders to try. That advice will help most inexperienced loaders get a start but most here allready know the basics and know what MIGHT shoot well in a certain caliber. Ive been handloading for 40 years. In that time ive owned and loaded for AT LEAST 50 bolt action and single shot rilfes. Probably close to twice that. Ive NEVER saw a gun that did its absolute best with the first bullet and powder combo ive tried in it. Your one lucky sob if it happened to you and if your claiming it happened more then once your either blessed by God or just another internet expert. Sure would be nice though to be so intellegent that when i bought a new gun I knew what it would shoot. It would sure make those 2 or 3 hundred boxes of bullets on the shelf seem silly and the cabinet full of differnt powders.

There it is again....TINKERITICE. "If you REALLY WANT to know what shoots the absolute best in your gun the ONLY way to find it is to shoot it."

That statement is 100% correct.....without a doubt. Absolutly no argument from me. Who am I to argue with that statement. I don't have your 40 years of experiance. I must be one of those"internet experts".

But at what cost? He trys the 168 VLD..a bullet that he really wants to try...and trys H1000, a powder that is recomended by more than a few people...and gets group size that will take him out as far as he can shoot, what is he to gain by shooting a bunch more stuff? Sure...if the thing won't shoot the combo, it won't shoot the combo...so move on and try again.

To go out and buy eleventeen kinds of powder and twelvteen different bullets right out of the gate is a waste of good money, IMO.

 

[Mikecr]

Wouldn't it be reasonable that the last century of heavy firearms use would have resulted in standards that held?
That we wouldn't have to start over from scratch(trial & error) with every component in every load in every gun?

Well, apparently this will never be..

 

[4xforfun]

Wouldn't it be reasonable that the last century of heavy firearms use would have resulted in standards that held?
That we wouldn't have to start over from scratch(trial & error) with every component in every load in every gun?

Well, apparently this will never be..

I am fishing for the point here, but I don't understand.

If your point is that there is no one powder/bullet/primer/brass/firerarm combo that is absolute best, then you also are 100% correct. To say that there is a "perfect" combo for every gun is pure hogwash.

BUT.....Are you saying that the OP should go out and buy a half dozen different powders, a half dozen different bullets, different primers, and maybe some brass from different makers and test EVERYTHING. That is strange, because when Kirby Allen or Shaun Carlock say go get some H1000, some 300 grain Bergers, and some fed 215 primers for your new Edge, they don't get any arguments from anyone on this fourm.

Look at Short range BR.....about 95% of the shooters shoot the same powder.

Look at Long range BR 90+% of the dasher guys use RL 15...eight more use Varget. 90 % of the 300 WSM guys shoot H4350. 90 % of the 300 WBY/ackly,ect shooters use RL25.

Look at the Edge shooters....90%+ are shooting H1000.

To say that A guy shooting XYZ cartridge can't be pointed into the right direction as far as powder at LEAST 50 % of the time by knowlagable shooters seems odd to me. But then again, maybe I am not one of the "knowlegable shooters"!!