A Serious Question

memtb said:
Lance I was hoping to hear from you…..I respect your opinions due to your experience.

But, 3" @ 600…..will certainly and forever stop any 600 yard shots for me! ☹️ memtb
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1/2 MOA from a bench turns into 1 MOA in field conditions easily.
I think you are giving yourself far too little credit.

I watched my nephew who had never shot further than 100 yards, shoot my 7SS (fully capable of shooting in the .3s every time I shoot it, usually better) at 835 yards and put 4 into an approximate 4-5" group after only 2 weekends of shooting. That is barely over 1/2 MOA. I missed the first shot on camera, but shots 1 & 2 are almost touching (his second shot is just on the right side of his first shot), you can see which 4 are his shots in this video. We were getting this rifle set up and ready for HIM for his elk hunt.

 
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Lance, I realize that I don't take the long range shooting as seriously as I should and nothing remotely close to many of you folks and my standards and equipment are less than what you folks demand…..but, I'm pretty happy with a 2" 3 shot group from the bench at 300 yards.

Though a better bench, and better bags/rest, ect might help some…..likely not enough.

So a 3" group at 600 from field positions seems undoable for me and my equipment.

I'm gonna go pout for a bit now! ☹️ memtb
 
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memtb said:
Lance, I realize that I don't take the long range shooting as seriously as I should and nothing remotely close to many of you folks and my standards and equipment are less than what you folks demand…..but, I'm pretty happy with a 2" 3 shot group from the bench at 300 yards.

Though a better bench, and better bags/rest, ect might help some…..likely not enough.

So a 3" group at 600 from field positions seems undoable for me and my equipment.

I'm gonna go pout for a bit now! ☹️ memtb
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2" @ 300 translates to 4" @ 600 if everything stays the same. I would absolutely consider that acceptable for hunting anything except maybe prairie dog headshots or 741 yard squirrels...

My daughter when she was 14 (please excuse my excited girly voice for a minute)
 
Either side of 1 MOA at 100 yards by a 1/4" inch... One MOA at 100 yards is Six MOA at 600 yards I think within the vitals of Deer, after factoring everything else into it. I've seen more than a few hunters hit targets at 500 and 600 yards with 1 1/2" to 2" MOA rifles over my lifetime, luck perhaps but the the target was hit solid nonetheless. Me personally, I'm in the under-one MOA camp for a good hunting rifle off the rack or semi-custom, as a hunting rifle, if it can't hold 1 MOA or under all day long it's heading for the trade-in counter.
Just my 0.2 Cheers
 
FireFlyFishing said:
Nothing wrong with that.

The rifle pictured when I took that cow was hiked 10.5 miles and close to 5000' vertical. I didn't get back to camp until 0200 the next morning as I shot her in the evening. Needless to say the rifle got heavy...as did the first load down to camp...
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Thank the lord I live on flat land in the swamp. At 34 feet above sea level on a hill. A 6 inch rise is a hill. I might have to swim and look for snakes and gators but that beats climbing a hill in my book. Both my long range guns, the 308 and the 6.5-06 weigh between 12.5 and 13 pounds. The ARs with thermal are a bit over 10. I can spot my hits easily. And transition to another animal quickly. I generally put benches, tables, or slightly elevated stand on my fields where we have problems and shots of 500 and greater can occur. I can't go prone due to injury.
 
memtb said:
Lance, I realize that I don't take the long range shooting as seriously as I should and nothing remotely close to many of you folks and my standards and equipment are less than what you folks demand…..but, I'm pretty happy with a 2" 3 shot group from the bench at 300 yards.

Though a better bench, and better bags/rest, ect might help some…..likely not enough.

So a 3" group at 600 from field positions seems undoable for me and my equipment.

I'm gonna go pout for a bit now! ☹️ memtb
Click to expand...
I will bet that with the right equipment and a little bit of practice you would surprise yourself. My son when he was 15 would sit with his Korean K2 service rifle in 5.56 and shoot 600 with open sights and keep them on a 10" plate if the wind wasn't bad. His eyes aren't as good now and he's more dependent on a scope but he's a heck of a shot. That K2 was fairly accurate and a great design. Best folding stock option I've seen.
 
I've only got one rifle that I hunt western big game with that my max range is 600 yards and it's a consistent 5/8-3/4" cold bore to 3rd shot from a bench.
Locally my shots are under 300 yards and 1 1/2" would be sufficient but I strive for 1" at most.
As others have said, off the bench and in the field are much different and I know that a 1" rifle on the bench is going to be greater than a 1" rifle in the field.
 
436 said:
Either side of 1 MOA at 100 yards by a 1/4" inch... One MOA at 100 yards is Six MOA at 600 yards I think within the vitals of Deer, after factoring everything else into it. I've seen more than a few hunters hit targets at 500 and 600 yards with 1 1/2" to 2" MOA rifles over my lifetime, luck perhaps but the the target was hit solid nonetheless. Me personally, I'm in the under-one MOA camp for a good hunting rifle off the rack or semi-custom, as a hunting rifle, if it can't hold 1 MOA or under all day long it's heading for the trade-in counter.
Just my 0.2 Cheers
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Wrong.
1 MOA @ 100 yards is still 1 MOA at 600 yards.
1 MOA is 1.047" @ 100 yards, and 1 MOA is 6.282" @ 600 yards.

Other than that, I can agree. a
A 2 MOA rifle statistically will hit a 1MOA target @ 600 about 50% of the time under good conditions. Could get lucky and hit 4 of 6. Could also get unlucky and miss 6 out of 6 times. 2MOA is 12" @ 600 yards. I would personally never accept those odds...unless it is a coyote.
 
lancetkenyon said:
I think a 600 yard hunting rifle should be expected to shoot 1/2MOA @ 100 yards, with verification out to your imposed limit of 600.
That means a 3" group at 600 from good conditions. No matter the weight or chambering of the rifle.

Because we all know those perfect conditions at the range and seldom, if ever, present on the mountain. I haven't ever, in 39 years of big game hunting, had a flat comfortable surface to shoot prone, with zero wind, and an animal perfectly broadside and relaxed, allowing for the perfect rock solid set up and zero adrenaline and slow heart rate, while hunting.

You start factoring in winds, weather, live game animals, adrenaline, humping up a mountain with a pounding heart, uncomfortable shooting positions, a makeshift rest, and your accuracy ability just doubled (or would that be halved) or more...minimum.

Too many people are thinking they have to build a 6.5-7lb all-in magnum for mountain hunting. Then can't shoot it well. 9lbs all-in is very doable and helps with a bit of forgiveness. I have very few rifles that are between 8.5 to 9lbs all-in. Nothing lighter than 8lbs with the exception of my .22LR.
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Truer words have never been spoken.
I will add, your scope choice plays a huge role in this situation.

Cheers.
 
I seriously doubt most people on this forum would keep a bolt action rifle that would not shoot 1 MOA. I've had a few, but the emphasis is on "had". I do have an AR that struggles to meet this criteria, but long range is not purpose of this rifle. We are fortunate now as most of the off the shelf bolt action rifles will achieve 1 MOA. The only issue is most of us want a rifle that shoots better than 1 MOA. Distinguishing between whether the rifle is indeed capable of shooting under .5 MOA is not where I spend my time and effort. Most of my issues come from my limitations and setup.
 
lancetkenyon said:
Wrong.
1 MOA @ 100 yards is still 1 MOA at 600 yards.
1 MOA is 1.047" @ 100 yards, and 1 MOA is 6.282" @ 600 yards.

Other than that, I can agree. a
A 2 MOA rifle statistically will hit a 1MOA target @ 600 about 50% of the time under good conditions. Could get lucky and hit 4 of 6. Could also get unlucky and miss 6 out of 6 times. 2MOA is 12" @ 600 yards. I would personally never accept those odds...unless it is a coyote.
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Agree, it was a generalization breaking it down to easy math. 😉😊
 

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