Which turkey gun?

FirstBubba said:

My shoulder problems (at age 68) was due to a poorly thought out, "one armed" tackle as a junior in high school! I grabbed the back of a jersey, got my feet clipped out from under me......but I didn't turn loose of the jersey! THAT resulted on a dislocated shoulder that deteriorated over time until I could no longer sleep nights.
SOOOO......
I put away the Rem 870 and picked up an antique Rem "Sportsman" 16 gauge (per the S/N, one of the first 500 built on 1932).
Sent barrel to Briley in Houston and had it threaded.
Xtra Full
Mod (between full & mod)
IC (between mod and IC)
So far, I've not taken a turkey with it. Maybe this fall.

I've taken turkeys with a shotgun, rifle, blackpowder and handgun.
More with shotgun than anything else.
It really doesn't make any difference about make or model. It's all about what you can shoot comfortably and with confidence.

I have a Mossberg, bolt action .410 and a handful of #9 TSS I would LOVE to take a turkey with.
I normally shoot a "hi-velocity" (1200fps or better) shell with plain Jane old #8 lead shot.
Like others, I'll call ol' tom to me. If I can't get him in range, he'll be there tomorrow!
Gives me an excuse to keep going back!View attachment 594193
Here's the old "Sportsman".View attachment 594196
This is the tubes Briley made.View attachment 594200
May not be a Rolla Royce, but she's a far cry from a Ford Falcon! LOL!

Actually, I just wanted to see if I could post pictures here!
Easy enough!
Thanks, "Long Range Hunting", for allowing a old fart the opportunity to share my "interesting file of useless information"!

Click to expand...

FirstBubba said:

My shoulder problems (at age 68) was due to a poorly thought out, "one armed" tackle as a junior in high school! I grabbed the back of a jersey, got my feet clipped out from under me......but I didn't turn loose of the jersey! THAT resulted on a dislocated shoulder that deteriorated over time until I could no longer sleep nights.
SOOOO......
I put away the Rem 870 and picked up an antique Rem "Sportsman" 16 gauge (per the S/N, one of the first 500 built on 1932).
Sent barrel to Briley in Houston and had it threaded.
Xtra Full
Mod (between full & mod)
IC (between mod and IC)
So far, I've not taken a turkey with it. Maybe this fall.

I've taken turkeys with a shotgun, rifle, blackpowder and handgun.
More with shotgun than anything else.
It really doesn't make any difference about make or model. It's all about what you can shoot comfortably and with confidence.

I have a Mossberg, bolt action .410 and a handful of #9 TSS I would LOVE to take a turkey with.
I normally shoot a "hi-velocity" (1200fps or better) shell with plain Jane old #8 lead shot.
Like others, I'll call ol' tom to me. If I can't get him in range, he'll be there tomorrow!
Gives me an excuse to keep going back!View attachment 594193
Here's the old "Sportsman".View attachment 594196
This is the tubes Briley made.View attachment 594200
May not be a Rolla Royce, but she's a far cry from a Ford Falcon! LOL!

Actually, I just wanted to see if I could post pictures here!
Easy enough!
Thanks, "Long Range Hunting", for allowing a old fart the opportunity to share my "interesting file of useless information"!

Click to expand...

Hey Bubba, First of all, there is no such thing as useless information. There may be things that are nothing new to some, and a startling revelation to others. In this case, sending an older shotgun with a fixed choke is a fantastic idea. Mix a bit of the quality of an older firearm that has been well taken care of and add something new and modern that expands it's versatility. I did something similar to a Remington 1100 that came from the factory with a Modified choke. For how I use a shotgun Modified, while not completely useless is close to it. Cost me $100 to have the barrel modified to take Carlson choke tubes, instead of $225 that Remington wanted for another barrel. Don't think that thoughts and actions and experiences are useless trivia. They are enjoyable reading for some, and invaluable information for others.

Teri Anne said:

Hey Bubba, First of all, there is no such thing as useless information. There may be things that are nothing new to some, and a startling revelation to others. In this case, sending an older shotgun with a fixed choke is a fantastic idea. Mix a bit of the quality of an older firearm that has been well taken care of and add something new and modern that expands it's versatility. I did something similar to a Remington 1100 that came from the factory with a Modified choke. For how I use a shotgun Modified, while not completely useless is close to it. Cost me $100 to have the barrel modified to take Carlson choke tubes, instead of $225 that Remington wanted for another barrel. Don't think that thoughts and actions and experiences are useless trivia. They are enjoyable reading for some, and invaluable information for others.

Click to expand...

I'm jealous! Briley charges $300 to thread and furnish 3 tubes. But that was 2020.
Best part, turn around was about a week and a half!

The S/N on the barrel didn't match the S/N on the receiver. In fact, it showed to be a purchase from the Remington "store".
I even went back to the shop where I bought the gun and asked if there just may be a second barrel stuck back somewhere. Nope!

Had the S/N's matched, I probably would have left it original.

I sent the barrel to America's Gun Shop, now in Burlington, WI. Back then they were a part of Gander Mountain, in Kenosha. Now independent.
Prices reasonable, workmanship beyond reproach. I use them as well as my friends to on a regular basis. With your shotgun and your shoulder I probably would have replaced the recoil pad, but kept the original for the collector who wanted original.

I've killed well over a hundred birds and guided over dozens more. I've used and seen used a lot of shot guns. I personally have two favorites, Remington 870 and Winchester SX4. Just get something that is drilled and taped for a base because you may not today but some day you could want to add a red dot or scope.

Sinko said:

I've killed well over a hundred birds and guided over dozens more. I've used and seen used a lot of shot guns. I personally have two favorites, Remington 870 and Winchester SX4. Just get something that is drilled and taped for a base because you may not today but some day you could want to add a red dot or scope.

Click to expand...

Well I ended up trying both the Weatherby and Mossberg over the last few years and didn't like either one much. It came down to the Winchester and the Beretta. I ended up with the Beretta equipped with a red dot and I couldn't be happier.

Sinko said:

I've killed well over a hundred birds and guided over dozens more. I've used and seen used a lot of shot guns. I personally have two favorites, Remington 870 and Winchester SX4. Just get something that is drilled and taped for a base because you may not today but some day you could want to add a red dot or scope.

Click to expand...

Over the years I've tried several different shotguns on turkeys, all did the job, some did it better. I started out with a Remington 870 2 3/4 inch, full choke, using Remington 2 3/4 inch magnum #4 shot and was not all that happy with it. If the birds were within 25 yards it did OK, but sometimes took two shots to do the job. From there went to a Remington 11/87 Super Mag 3 1/2 inch topped with a saddle mount and Truglo 4x scope. I was using Federal Black Cloud 3 1/2 inch #4 steel shells. Even though it was a semi auto the recoil was brutal, but it did the job in one shot out to 60 yards with a Carlson Extra Full choke. I used it for a couple of years and decided that despite the success rate that the 3 1/2 mag was too uncomfortable to shoot. Sold it to a guy at the gun club and bought a Remington 11/87 3 inch mag. I screwed in a Carlson extended waterfowl choke, moved the scope to the 11/87 and when trying to sight it in ran into issues. The reticle had broken free, probably from the recoil of the 3 1/2 mag so I took it off and since I was going to go hunting the next day just opted to use the bead sight. I was again using Federal Black Cloud 3 inch mag #4 shot. This is the combination that worked great, taking turkeys with one shot out to 60 yards. I have been hunting pretty much everything with this shotgun, ducks, geese, pheasant and turkey. With the ability to shoot 2 3/4 inch trap loads as well as 3 inch loads makes it a versatile shotgun able to hunt anything simply by changing the choke tube and ammo.

Teri Anne said:

Over the years I've tried several different shotguns on turkeys, all did the job, some did it better. I started out with a Remington 870 2 3/4 inch, full choke, using Remington 2 3/4 inch magnum #4 shot and was not all that happy with it. If the birds were within 25 yards it did OK, but sometimes took two shots to do the job. From there went to a Remington 11/87 Super Mag 3 1/2 inch topped with a saddle mount and Truglo 4x scope. I was using Federal Black Cloud 3 1/2 inch #4 steel shells. Even though it was a semi auto the recoil was brutal, but it did the job in one shot out to 60 yards with a Carlson Extra Full choke. I used it for a couple of years and decided that despite the success rate that the 3 1/2 mag was too uncomfortable to shoot. Sold it to a guy at the gun club and bought a Remington 11/87 3 inch mag. I screwed in a Carlson extended waterfowl choke, moved the scope to the 11/87 and when trying to sight it in ran into issues. The reticle had broken free, probably from the recoil of the 3 1/2 mag so I took it off and since I was going to go hunting the next day just opted to use the bead sight. I was again using Federal Black Cloud 3 inch mag #4 shot. This is the combination that worked great, taking turkeys with one shot out to 60 yards. I have been hunting pretty much everything with this shotgun, ducks, geese, pheasant and turkey. With the ability to shoot 2 3/4 inch trap loads as well as 3 inch loads makes it a versatile shotgun able to hunt anything simply by changing the choke tube and ammo.

Click to expand...

I hear a lot of folks that use bigger shot. Number 4's and 5's.
One guy bragged that he shot #2's! That's the largest shot allowed in OK.


My point!
Where the focus on a deer is to place the shot behind the shoulder, the "target" of focus on a turkey is the head and neck.
Both of those targets are small, at best.
Does it not make sense to shoot a denser pattern?
Something that would be provided by #6 or smaller shot.
Personally, despite ammo or gun, I won't shoot at a turkey over 40 yards. That's my OFS kicking in! LOL!
Due to physical conditions, I've traded down from a Rem 870 12 ga with 2.75" #8's to a Rem "Sportsman" 16 ga and still shoot 2.75" #8's with devastating effect.

A turkey's head isn't much larger than a quail and just about as delicate considering even lead shot. Same with the neck.
It only takes "ONE" #8 to enter the brain or disrupt the CNS (central nervous system - spinal column) to collect a turkey. The denser the pattern, the greater the chance of a fatal pellet strike to brain or CNS.

As an aside, I hunted with a cousin (rest his soul) for several seasons.
In our hunting, he shot a Mossberg 3.5" ammo with #5's or #4's!
He NEVER killed a bird with a single shot. They all three required at least one followup shot.
In the same time span, he watched me kill five gobblers. All five with a single round and I always shot 2.75" ammo with 1 1/8 oz of #8's.

"Pattern density kills, not shot size."

FirstBubba said:

I hear a lot of folks that use bigger shot. Number 4's and 5's.
One guy bragged that he shot #2's! That's the largest shot allowed in OK.


My point!
Where the focus on a deer is to place the shot behind the shoulder, the "target" of focus on a turkey is the head and neck.
Both of those targets are small, at best.
Does it not make sense to shoot a denser pattern?
Something that would be provided by #6 or smaller shot.
Personally, despite ammo or gun, I won't shoot at a turkey over 40 yards. That's my OFS kicking in! LOL!
Due to physical conditions, I've traded down from a Rem 870 12 ga with 2.75" #8's to a Rem "Sportsman" 16 ga and still shoot 2.75" #8's with devastating effect.

A turkey's head isn't much larger than a quail and just about as delicate considering even lead shot. Same with the neck.
It only takes "ONE" #8 to enter the brain or disrupt the CNS (central nervous system - spinal column) to collect a turkey. The denser the pattern, the greater the chance of a fatal pellet strike to brain or CNS.

As an aside, I hunted with a cousin (rest his soul) for several seasons.
In our hunting, he shot a Mossberg 3.5" ammo with #5's or #4's!
He NEVER killed a bird with a single shot. They all three required at least one followup shot.
In the same time span, he watched me kill five gobblers. All five with a single round and I always shot 2.75" ammo with 1 1/8 oz of #8's.

"Pattern density kills, not shot size."

Click to expand...

Here in Wisconsin #4 shot is as large as one can use hunting Turkeys. when shooting the 3 inch I bought a box of Federal Black Cloud #4 steel, which are actually waterfowl loads. These days a box of 25, at Midway runs $36.99, as opposed to other turkey specific ammo that run up to $41.00 for 5 rounds. So cost is one factor, but only using one or two rounds a year if hunting both spring and fall is kind of a negligible factor.

Shot size is a big factor regarding retained energy at longer range. #4 shot will retain it's energy to a farther range than 7 1/2 or 8 shot, which is usually used for trap shooting and at most ranges the maximum shot size allowed due to flight distances. The smaller shot does not go as far. Another factor is velocity. The Black Cloud shot leaves the barrel at 1635 FPS, which is much faster than most other turkey loads leaving the barrel at 1200 FPS. Despite the fact that steel shot is not as heavy as some of the other selections, the fact that it leaves the muzzle at a much greater speed seems to more than make up for the difference.

As for performance, the Black Cloud steel #4 shot has been responsible for one shot for one turkey between 15 an 60 yards for many years. As long as it performs like this, at $1.48 per shell as opposed to I find no reason to use any of the fancy turkey loads at $8.20 per shell. I really don't think that the turkey cares if the shell that killed it cost $1.48 or $8.20. It's just as dead.

Facing facts, your cousin never fired a killing shot with his #4 or #5 shot out of his Mossberg, which by the way is an excellent turkey gun. One question? Did he ever bother to pattern the shotgun? Shotgun patterns don't always go exactly where you think they are going to go. My Remington 11/87 puts approximately 50% of the roughly 280 #4 pellets into a 36 inch circle at 60 yards. A turkey's head and neck pretty much are going to get peppered real well when withing that circle.

My daddy told me many years ago, "Don't fight success." You are free to use whatever blows up your skirt, but I am going to stick to the Black Cloud #4 that has always served me well.

Ended the Fall Season in Michigan on opening day Sep. 15 with a 23 pound 4 ounce Tom with a 11" beard and 1 3/8" spurs....not one of those long drawn out hunts....located the turkeys on there roost over a pond in the woods only water with in 1 mile this fall....
There were 8 Toms they flew out of the tree after I made a few tree yelps.....they landed 30 yards away one shot from the Mossberg 500 410 of Federal TSS #9 ended the season just minutes in.....
Spring season ended about the same only about 200 yards from the Fall hunt 22 pound 10 ounce with a 10 1/2" beard also shot with the Mossberg 500 410.....

For decades my turkey gun was a Ithaca Mag 10 with a custom 22" X-Full barrel shooting Federal #4 copper plated 2 1/4 oz loads never missed or lost a bird.....but I needed that heavy gun at 10 pounds to slow me down chasing Tom's....now pushing 70 years old I've slowed down alot and the Mossberg 500 410 sure is nice carrying plus the newer TSS shot reallty tighens up the patterns no problem out to 40 yards....
Also have on top for sighting is Williams LRS red dot sight and there base it mounts nice and low no adding to the stock to get your proper line up....

Teri Anne said:

Over the years I've tried several different shotguns on turkeys, all did the job, some did it better. I started out with a Remington 870 2 3/4 inch, full choke, using Remington 2 3/4 inch magnum #4 shot and was not all that happy with it. If the birds were within 25 yards it did OK, but sometimes took two shots to do the job. From there went to a Remington 11/87 Super Mag 3 1/2 inch topped with a saddle mount and Truglo 4x scope. I was using Federal Black Cloud 3 1/2 inch #4 steel shells. Even though it was a semi auto the recoil was brutal, but it did the job in one shot out to 60 yards with a Carlson Extra Full choke. I used it for a couple of years and decided that despite the success rate that the 3 1/2 mag was too uncomfortable to shoot. Sold it to a guy at the gun club and bought a Remington 11/87 3 inch mag. I screwed in a Carlson extended waterfowl choke, moved the scope to the 11/87 and when trying to sight it in ran into issues. The reticle had broken free, probably from the recoil of the 3 1/2 mag so I took it off and since I was going to go hunting the next day just opted to use the bead sight. I was again using Federal Black Cloud 3 inch mag #4 shot. This is the combination that worked great, taking turkeys with one shot out to 60 yards. I have been hunting pretty much everything with this shotgun, ducks, geese, pheasant and turkey. With the ability to shoot 2 3/4 inch trap loads as well as 3 inch loads makes it a versatile shotgun able to hunt anything simply by changing the choke tube and ammo.

Click to expand...

I think that if the only thing you could turkey hunt with was a 3 1/2 " inch load, that very well might be the end of my turkey hunting career. Not a turkey in the woods that a 3" inch load won't kill, particularly at 40 yards and in which is my personal range limit. If I can't call him in to 40 or closer, he wins and gets to sleep with his hens that night. I have a horror of crippling one of those magnificent creatures.

Remington 870 Turkey Camo 3in shooting Winchester XR #5s thru a Kick's Gobblin Thunder .660 choke. This combo is lethal to 75 yards and has taken a bird at 83 paces.

Some of these comments surprise me with the lack of understanding basic patterning. Know your pattern density (100 in a 10" circle is the standard minimum for turkey,) and understand what your maximum lethal range is. Remember lead shot is not tungsten and #8 lead is probably not lethal at 40 yards but #8 tss will wreck a turkey at 70. If you are like me and use tss take trajectory into account because at 60 yards I'm still getting 160 pellets in the 10" but it's 8 inches low. Know your point of impact vs your point of aim and adjust if needed. I use a sight of some sort be it rifle sights, scope or red dot on every turkey gun and I have six of them.

Sinko said:

Some of these comments surprise me with the lack of understanding basic patterning. Know your pattern density (100 in a 10" circle is the standard minimum,) and understand what your maximum lethal range is. Remember lead shot is not tungsten and #8 lead is probably not lethal at 40 yards but #8 tss will wreck a turkey at 70. If you are like me and use tss take trajectory into account because at 60 yards im still getting 160 pellets in the 10" but it's 8 inches low. Know your point of impact vs your point of aim and adjust if needed. I use a sight of some sort be it rifle sights, scope or red dot on every turkey gun and I have six of them.

Click to expand...

If that's what trips your trigger, go for it.
....and "Yes!", lead #8's will kill cleanly at 40 yards. Been there, done that! I won't push it past that.

I'm an old tightwad!
Last ammo I killed a turkey with, came out of a trash can! LOL!

Trainer I worked with was from Georgia. We were talking shotguns one day and I mentioned I was a 16 gauge freak!
"Would you like some 16 gauge ammo?"
"Sure!"
He and his wife bought yard sale junk, doctored it up and resold it. They bought a chest of drawers that had a bunch of 16 gauge ammo. He put it all in one of those small, plastic bathroom trashcans and gave it to me.
It was almost four full boxes of ammo. Half of it Field Load #8's and the rest was Hi-Brass #7.5's.
It was back in 1988 when he gave me the ammo. It was probably several years old then. I killed the turkey in the picture with one of the Rem Hi-Brass #7.5's in the fall of 2018!
So....literally....ammo out of a trashcan! LOL!

@ Teri Ann
"... Facing facts, your cousin never fired a killing shot with his #4 or #5 shot out of his Mossberg, which by the way is an excellent turkey gun. One question? Did he ever bother to pattern the shotgun? ..."
Best I could figure out, he was an avid "waterfowler". As hard as I tried, I COULD NOT keep him from trying to "body shoot" turkeys!
"DUDE! Aim for the head or neck!"

I grew up waterfowl hunting by jump shooting ducks on Keechi Creek in east Texas. We (grampa, dad, me) never bought anything but #7.5's and #8's.
I have used Rem Hi-Vel #9's pass shooting ducks. Very successfully, I might add!
When the lead ban hit, I quit waterfowling.
Steel shot was too expensive and as much as I liked shooting ducks, I didn't like it enough to continue if I had to use steel shot.

Roy's really good people, known him for a very long time! And yes, his new shop is pretty nice!

Reply to Teri Anne...